Hartzell Top Prop Mod

[M016576]

Has anyone upgraded their M20A-J to this prop?  Any performance enhancements?  Doesn't sound like a bad deal, just wondering if anyone has done this...

http://www.hartzellprop.com/news.php?pr=232

-JoB

[flyby201]

Yes, I have one on my '77 M20J.  Have I seen a improvement in performance?  Hard to say.  A couple of years ago an acquaintance who had 800+ hours in a Mooney was flying my plane and had a prop strike.  I ended up with a new prop and an engine overhaul by Robert Smith at Mena Aircraft Engines.  I did have a performance improvement, but I'm more likely to think the engine overhaul is responsible for the performance improvement.  Not long afterwards, I also started experiementing with LOP operation and now fly almost exclusively LOP

[flight2000]

Anyone know what the current price is for the Top Prop conversion?  I'd call Hartzell, but it would be an expensive call.

Thanks,

Brian

[John Pursell]

Quote: flight2000

http://www.hartzellprop.com/top_prop_details.php?id=104

Looks like $8100

 

Anyone know what the current price is for the Top Prop conversion?  I'd call Hartzell, but it would be an expensive call.

Thanks,

Brian

[flight2000]

Thanks.  Not sure how I missed that.  I liked the older prices better...

Brian

[skyking]

I have one on my "A" model. Better climb, a little quieter.

Mine was 9 Grand Canadian installed.

[georgeb]

I've had one for almost 3 years and just so you know, the Chrome spinner is going away. After multiple mishaps, they're going to a painted composite spinner . They're in the final stages of certification with it and I understand I'm to be one of the first to have the composite spinner. I opted out of getting a polished replacement..they're still having 'issues' with them (at least on our 360 engines). Now, that being said, as far as the performance is concerned, I can without a doubt tell you that it has been the most significant speed improvement I've ever put on my mooney....period. I recently put a stock prop back on while mine is being repaired, and once again, I can tell you without any degree of doubt, there is a considerable difference between the two.

George

 

[Jeff_S]

Quote: georgeb

I've had one for almost 3 years and just so you know, the Chrome spinner is going away. After multiple mishaps, they're going to a painted composite spinner . They're in the final stages of certification with it and I understand I'm to be one of the first to have the composite spinner. I opted out of getting a polished replacement..they're still having 'issues' with them (at least on our 360 engines). Now, that being said, as far as the performance is concerned, I can without a doubt tell you that it has been the most significant speed improvement I've ever put on my mooney....period. I recently put a stock prop back on while mine is being repaired, and once again, I can tell you without any degree of doubt, there is a considerable difference between the two.

George

 

[KSMooniac]

I should be able to give a PIREP on the MT scimitar prop pretty soon. 

[OR75]

It is tough to understand why a strong enough steel spinner cannot be made.

I am a bit weary of a composite spinner knowing composite shear resistance performance. But what do I know, so staying on the sideline for now with my original square tip McCauley prop.

[Vref]

I installed an overhauled McCauley prop for about 4 AMU's I was very tempted by the new MT Prop light performant etc.., though the company is very close to where my aircraft is repaired I was put off by the price....9K euro....Also I checked the two bladed Hartzell...its about 8k euro..no EASA stc available....

Downside on the MT prop is very sensitive for dust and small particles..it damages the coating...I prefer to spent the 4K on avionics...;-).

though its is tempting to go for the scimitar version very nice indeed!!!.

I have flown a lot behind MT props...they are great but there have been known issues with delamination and cracking...The lifecycle of a metal prop is hard to beat though...

One small issue: surviveabillity off the crankshaft is better with a composite prop if you forgot to extend the legs...

[georgeb]

Quote: Jeff_S

[Capt_CrashN_Burn]

Quote: KSMooniac

I should be able to give a PIREP on the MT scimitar prop pretty soon. 

[Immelman]

A friend of mine with a fast C model had the hartzell schimtar installed. It looks sexy and got him about 5 knots improvement in cruise speed or so he says... and after flying his airplane I really can say that its fast - does about the same as my E.

[georgeb]

I picked up 6-8 knots....I shit you not!..I'm telling you, The difference from the stock prop was amazing... . Don't know if something was wrong with my stock prop....don't think so, but like I keep posting on this thread. It's the only speed mod that I've been able to feel....

oh, and Did I mention that this is the only speed mod that I've been able to feel the difference with....

 

[DaV8or]

I guess they can't just use the tried and true 201 spinner?

[KSMooniac]

The pre-J spinner is much smaller and a different shape than the J, so it cannot be used with a pre-J plane unless it has a 201 cowl mod of some flavor.

It is hard to believe that Harzell can't figure out how to make a non-cracking spinner for this application.  My 33+ year old McCauley spinner is still crack-free, but perhaps that is due to the counterweights on the -A3B6D variant of the IO-360 vs. the -A1A.

My MT spinner is fiberglass, but I got the optional shiny finish so it will look like a polished aluminum or chrome spinner.  Hopefully this is the best of both worlds...light weight, long-lasting, and shiny.

[flight2000]

What did they quote you for the MT prop?  I may need to replace mine if I continue with the sale because buyers seem to be paranoid about the EDDY AD....   This and the Top Prop would be on my short list.

Brian

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: KSMooniac

The pre-J spinner is much smaller and a different shape than the J, so it cannot be used with a pre-J plane unless it has a 201 cowl mod of some flavor.

It is hard to believe that Harzell can't figure out how to make a non-cracking spinner for this application.  My 33+ year old McCauley spinner is still crack-free, but perhaps that is due to the counterweights on the -A3B6D variant of the IO-360 vs. the -A1A.

My MT spinner is fiberglass, but I got the optional shiny finish so it will look like a polished aluminum or chrome spinner.  Hopefully this is the best of both worlds...light weight, long-lasting, and shiny.

[Ron McBride]

What did they quote you for the MT prop?  I may need to replace mine if I continue with the sale because buyers seem to be paranoid about the EDDY AD....   This and the Top Prop would be on my short list.

Brian

 

Brian  Can we just replace the hub if our blades are good?  My blades were replaced at the last overhaul.

Rob

[KSMooniac]

The hub can be replaced, but the cost now is pretty high vs. when the AD had just been issued and Hartzell was offering a discount.

I wouldn't recommend buying a brand-new prop just to ease the sale b/c you'll never recover the money.  Perhaps you could find a used non-AD prop if you really want to swap, otherwise discount the price just a little bit.

The MT was 10.5 AMU with custom paint and the shiny spinner.

[flight2000]

Thanks Scott.  I'll see how it plays out over the next couple of months.  My blades are a little beat up, but not to the pont where they need overhaul yet.  Passed with flying colors during the annual this month, so I've got some time to stew on it.

Brian

[DaV8or]

Quote: flight2000

What did they quote you for the MT prop?  I may need to replace mine if I continue with the sale because buyers seem to be paranoid about the EDDY AD....   This and the Top Prop would be on my short list.

Brian

[skyking]

There was a problem with the spinner when they first came out but as i understand it they have resolved the problem.

I have a 100 hours on mine now including a major cross country and we found no cracks at the first annual in March.

I also agree with the opther posts about the speed increase... i picked up at least 5 knots and the rate of climb is about 2 thousand feet per minute at 100 mph knots now.

[testwest]

We are happy with the 2 blade Top Prop on our 1977 J. We got 2 (3?) knots of speed gain or so, but the big advantage is the smoothness and no more yellow arc like with the McCauley C212.

Hopefully Scott S will give a good report on his MT conversion, either one is probably a good choice.

However, if Hartzell ever comes up with a two blade ASC-II composite prop for the Mooney like they have for the experimental RVs we would be "all over dat!" That prop plus a carbon belly from Bill Wheat could knock 20+ pounds off our empty weight. And that would be a good thing.