J-bar folks: How do you handle gear on a go-around?

[DXB]

Yesterday I did a little proficiency training with my favorite Mooney CFI.  My extensive pattern work with him, including power out 180s and short field landings, ended in more go-arounds in one morning than I've done total since buying my C model.  In the process, I realized that I really suck at the go around, particularly the gear retraction part, and want your guidance.

On a normal takeoff, I retract the J-bar very early - at around 80mph as soon as I'm in a stable climb- it is nearly effortless at 80. But at 90mph it takes some serious oomph, and at 100mph it's basically impossible for a weakling like me, and increasing effort seems to add serious risk of LOC.    

So let''s say one decides to go around because the approach is too fast (e.g. 90mph) and feels unstabilized when going over the fence.   My sequence currently is:

(1) carb heat off

(2) WOT

(3) forward pressure to compensate for nose up trim

(4) right rudder as the nose comes up

(5) Gear up

(6) flaps up

(7) fix the trim.  

But if I was too fast to begin with, adding power was making me even faster and turning the gear retraction into a bear at a moment when there's several other things to do.  It was even an issue if I was right on speed- adding full power instantly made me too fast to retract gear smoothly.   Should I pitch for 80 initially until the gear is up?  This feels a bit precarious to me.  Maybe because that attitude requires lots of rudder and feels like it could deteriorate into an uncoordinated departure stall if I'm not careful- the plane is still trimmed nose up at that point so it feels different from simply practicing a Vx climb in takeoff configuration.   What do you guys do?

[takair]

Positive rate and reasonable altitude and then a little extra pull on the yoke, just before retraction, then I simultaneously retract the gear and just a slight push on the yoke....maybe 1/2 G...but not even negative.  Picture a small parabola.  The slight push helps the gear along...basically it weighs less.  You can practice this at altitude or with a CFI.  Just warn him as to what you are doing.  If done right, you won't lose any altitude and your passenger won't notice.  When doing IFR work, you will find that the technique to get gear up on go around is important.  With this technique, don't get too aggressive with the push...in IMC it can lead to vertigo.  My personal minimums are on the high side, and this is one of the reasons.  Alternately, you can pitch for 80, as you described, but this too is uncomfortable in IMC.  You will want to practice under the hood too when you go for your instrument rating.  I will be curious what others do.  I did my CFI/II rating in the plane, and the gear was the hardest part.  I used this technique and nobody really noticed, but my weaker left arm was still able to get the gear up this way at higher speeds.

[Marauder]

Lots of practice.

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[DXB]

4 minutes ago, takair said:

Positive rate and reasonable altitude and then a little extra pull on the yoke, just before retraction, then I simultaneously retract the gear and just a slight push on the yoke....maybe 1/2 G...but not even negative.  Picture a small parabola.  The slight push helps the gear along...basically it weighs less.  You can practice this at altitude or with a CFI.  Just warn him as to what you are doing.  If done right, you won't lose any altitude and your passenger won't notice.  When doing IFR work, you will find that the technique to get gear up on go around is important.  With this technique, don't get too aggressive with the push...in IMC it can lead to vertigo.  My personal minimums are on the high side, and this is one of the reasons.  Alternately, you can pitch for 80, as you described, but this too is uncomfortable in IMC.  You will want to practice under the hood too when you go for your instrument rating.  I will be curious what others do.  I did my CFI/II rating in the plane, and the gear was the hardest part.  I used this technique and nobody really noticed, but my weaker left arm was still able to get the gear up this way at higher speeds.

This never occurred to me - very interesting. Thanks!!

[DXB]

Just now, Marauder said:

Lots of practice.

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Yes Chris  - flying with an arm-wrestling hipster in the left seat would indeed be one viable solution.

[Marauder]

I flew safety pilot with a guy in an F with the J bar. Twice on the six approaches we flew he couldn't get the gear up without me helping.

Based on what I observed, it needs to happen early or as you point out, it is a struggle. He began pitching up pretty aggressively and was able to manage it better but it looked like a technique thing that if he didn't catch it at the right time, he struggled.

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[jetdriven]

Just power up, pitch up to below 80mph (15 degrees ANU), then put the gear up.  The plane won't stall power on until around 60 MPH and that takes some effort. since you do a normal gear retraction at 80, do it then.  Or climb at 80 to pattern altitude and forget about the gear.  A VFR go around is followed by a close pattern and an immediate landing anyway.  

Edited April 12, 2016 by jetdriven

[kellym]

47 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Just power up, pitch up to below 80mph (15 degrees ANU), then put the gear up.  The plane won't stall power on until around 60 MPH and that takes some effort. since you do a normal gear retraction at 80, do it then.  Or climb at 80 to pattern altitude and forget about the gear.  A VFR go around is followed by a close pattern and an immediate landing anyway.  

I aim for 85 mph with my E model for gear retraction.  I agree with the leaving gear down if staying VFR.  For those with the 180 hp engine, try powering up with throttle before eliminating carb heat. The engine produces a lot more heat with power, to eliminate chance of stumble with carb ice after long low power approach. Also reduces the acceleration where you really don't need much if you are going around from IFR minimums.

[carusoam]

Dev, you need to determine your gear up speed and your gear down speed....

 

The go around is a trim struggle.

Power on, Trim, trim, trim... Or stall is too great of a possibility.  

Holding the yoke in takes some arm strength.  Trimming takes some speed on the manual wheel.

How controlled did your flaps retract?  Did they dump too quickly?

The purpose of the go around is to get away from the ground.

Aim for best rate of climb.  All trimmed nicely

Then get the gear up.

Then remaining flaps.

It doesn't make sense to struggle with the gear near the ground.

It makes less sense to allow the plane to accelerate to high speeds.  If you did,  increase the attitude until it slows to your gear up speed.  This is only momentary. Stow the gear, lower the nose, climb at Vy again...

Pushing down with one arm kind of leads to pulling back with the other.   Really bad idea with full up trim and full flaps and full power.

The above comes from my C experience.  

The gear is very speed dependent.  There is an air speed that will work for your arm.  There is also a speed that puts the gear down nice and gently.  These two speeds are different and can be adjusted to taste using a parabola or a bank.

focus on getting the right speed for gear up and the other right speed for gear down.  This can be done at safe altitudes without having to practice the whole go around routine.

The rate at which you feed in the power and take out the first notch of flaps also determines how busy you are with trim and gear.

or use this machine to help even out your triceps...

 

[carusoam]

That thing is called a tricep press.  It is built by LifeFitness and is available at many ordinary gyms.

It doesn't take long to build your strength up enough to push your butt off the seat.

going too fast while trying to raise the gear is also a butt lifting experience...

Pick a safe altitude, use slow flight techniques, raise and lower the gear effortlessly. Note the speeds in written form...

There is a speed that works, and an attitude that gets that speed when the power is full in. Get those numbers in your plane...

I am still a PP, not a CFI... Or physical trainer.

Best regards,

-a-

[Gone]

Go-rounds in a manual gear Mooney are non-events for me.  My approach is down to 85 mph or so after the turn to final or over the FAF.  

Once the go-round decision is made, (Throttle - because Mixture and Prop are already set for both landing and go-round) I just make sure the nose is pointed up (straight down the runway) an the climb is established at 85 mph.  TOGA's for me involve only two pumps of flaps so the trim for landing is same as the trim for the go-round.  (If I have 4 pumps of flaps and I decide to go around I have to go through the evolution of three rotations of trim forward and then releasing three steamboats worth of flaps to get back to the "two pumps of flaps" scenario.)  Once all that is done and things are OK and climbing at 85 mph, then it is time to pull the gear lock out of the socket and smoothly move the gear lever to the floor lock - no sudden moves because that tends to drop my right wing (at least according to my wife).  This really needs to be done when the speeds are less than 95 mph because faster than that sometimes makes it difficult to pull the wheels out of the airstream with the bar.  Once the go-round altitude is reached - raise the flap switch.  

The reason I do not climb at 120 mph until I am up to 1000' (or the go-round altitude) is because of the flap limit speed (Vfe) of 100 mph.  

That's it.  I miss anything?

 

[Shadrach]

In addition to some of the other excellent advice you've received, I'll add the following. A non- emergency "go around" need not be executed as though there is an emergency. Deliberate and methodical is probably best. You don't need to raise the gear at all, but I'm betting you'd prefer to climb gear up to minimize CHTs. Where is your "too fast" decision point?  On a "go-around" that is initiated from 100s of feet AGL, I often raise my gear before applying power. There is no real rush to ensure that everything is cleaned up and firewalled in less than 3 seconds. Raising the gear ought to take about 1.5 seconds max.

Is your instructor having you practice forward slips to landing? 90MPH is fast on final, but not beyond the realm of salvageable for normal runways if corrective action is taken in time.

[orionflt]

Ross, 

I disagree with your non emergency go around vs emergency go around philosophy, I believe that you practice for the real emergency or go around that way when you need to do it in the actual low min environment it will be second nature. also, when ever you are practicing an emergency procedure (emergency or not) you have increased your risk factor, you may only be simulating the emergency but you have still put yourself into the same situation as if it were actually happening. yes you may have only pulled the engine back to simulate failure and intend to apply power before you get to low but what happens when the engine quits? are you ready to commit to that landing? practice like you perform keep your procedures the same for both practice and actual.

Just my opinion

Brian   

[N201MKTurbo]

Don't power all the way up. Just power up to about 20 in. This should give you a positive ROC with approach configuration. Retract the gear, power up a bit more, retract the flaps and then configure for climb. You can do all this in about 10 seconds without rushing and never be mis-trimed.

[Danb]

Chris where did you get my picture before my grey hair.

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, orionflt said:

Ross, 

I disagree with your non emergency go around vs emergency go around philosophy, I believe that you practice for the real emergency or go around that way when you need to do it in the actual low min environment it will be second nature. also, when ever you are practicing an emergency procedure (emergency or not) you have increased your risk factor, you may only be simulating the emergency but you have still put yourself into the same situation as if it were actually happening. yes you may have only pulled the engine back to simulate failure and intend to apply power before you get to low but what happens when the engine quits? are you ready to commit to that landing? practice like you perform keep your procedures the same for both practice and actual.

Just my opinion

Brian   

To each their own.  I certainly understand the value of rote procedure. However, I see a large difference between deciding to go around a few 100ft above the ground and having to abort a landing when a deer runs onto the runway as you cross the numbers. One is initiated almost solely out of reaction followed by rote action and the other is initiated by reason not reaction.   

 

[Bob_Belville]

I got to fly a few minutes with Mike Elliott at Mooney Summit last fall. A FR with a Mooney specific CFI. He called out a "go around" on short final (probably 100' AGL, <65 kts, full flaps, full up trim). I went full throttle while holding a lot of pressure on the yoke with my thumb running the electric trim forward. I never try to partially raise flaps (hydraulic) so with adequate AS I dumped flaps. That's when Mike got interested in what might happen next. When the trim caught up I swung the JBar and he was breathing normally again.  

I don't know any other way to transition from landing to TO configuration. I'm sure a more powerful engine might necessitate a more cautious transition but this is a 200 hp short body Mooney, not a P-47. 

  

[orionflt]

Ross,

My point is if you practice your aborts using reason....IE differently then you would in an actual emergency then your rote procedure will be what you practice not what you may actually want to do.

 

Brian 

[Shadrach]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

I got to fly a few minutes with Mike Elliott at Mooney Summit last fall. A FR with a Mooney specific CFI. He called out a "go around" on short final (probably 100' AGL, <65 kts, full flaps, full up trim). I went full throttle while holding a lot of pressure on the yoke with my thumb running the electric trim forward. I never try to partially raise flaps (hydraulic) so with adequate AS I dumped flaps. That's when Mike got interested in what might happen next. When the trim caught up I swung the JBar and he was breathing normally again.  

I don't know any other way to transition from landing to TO configuration. I'm sure a more powerful engine might necessitate a more cautious transition but this is a 200 hp short body Mooney, not a P-47. 

  

I have never really thought it was that big of a deal to climb full flaps. I T&Gs with full flaps sometimes. I also raise flaps partially in the roll. The workload is certainly a little higher, but is certainly manageable. Is your Electric trim faster than your hand?

[gsxrpilot]

Gear is the least of my concerns on an unexpected go-around. The airplane will fly just fine with the gear out and I'm likely just coming right back around to land anyway.  If I'm going missed on an IFR approach, it's a different situation and one I'm actually planning for.

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I have never really thought it was that big of a deal to climb full flaps. I T&Gs with full flaps sometimes. I also raise flaps partially in the roll. The workload is certainly a little higher, but is certainly manageable. Is your Electric trim faster than your hand?

No, electric trim is probably slower. But I can push on yoke and hold trim buttons with left hand, freeing the right hand to raise flaps, gear, etc. I guess if I had to use the PTT instead of the Trim Switch I'd be cranking the manual trim wheel. A single pilot in our little planes can get busy at times. Aviate takes priority. 

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Gear is the least of my concerns on an unexpected go-around. The airplane will fly just fine with the gear out and I'm likely just coming right back around to land anyway.  If I'm going missed on an IFR approach, it's a different situation and one I'm actually planning for.

Agreed. I've left the gear down when aborting a landing due to conflicting traffic taxiing into TO position just as I turned final.

[flyer7324]

Don't need full power on go around. Airplane will climb just fine at 23-24 inches.

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[Shadrach]

 

19 hours ago, Marauder said:

I flew safety pilot with a guy in an F with the J bar. Twice on the six approaches we flew he couldn't get the gear up without me helping.

Based on what I observed, it needs to happen early or as you point out, it is a struggle. He began pitching up pretty aggressively and was able to manage it better but it looked like a technique thing that if he didn't catch it at the right time, he struggled.

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Your guy needs to get some exercise. I've had the gear come down on me in cruise (J bar bounced off the the down lock but didn't go into the socket). Certainly it was more challenging to get the gear raised and locked, but it didn't need to ask my passenger for help.

[flyer7324]

I agree. The 'push' is key. Doesn't have to be much. That's what I teach.

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