Fitting 2 babies in a Mooney?.

[Ragsf15e]

I've tried to read through the threads on flying with kids and haven't found an answer... How do I fit my infant twins (3 months old) into the Mooney safely?  I'd like to take their car seats, but thats not a requirement since the probably won't fit anywhere.

Wife will ride in back to be able to tend to them.  

Weight and balance isn't a problem...

Anyone successfully flown 2 young infants?  If so, tell me the logistics of it?

Anyone think of removing the copilot seat?

Thanks, Rags

[Godfather]

I'd personally figure out a way to secure 2 car seats.  Having never looked into this I wonder what people use for hearing protection?

edit:  looks like em's 4 bubs might be a good option for hearing protection...not your question but I was curious.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Godfather

[ArtVandelay]

My J back seat is 36" wide, so 2 should fit if less than 18", you'll have to measure your F. Do you have shoulder belts in the back seat?  Hearing protection is a definite must.

[Ragsf15e]

Definitely agree on the hearing protection and think i have that issue solved.  There are good options for infants.  http://usa.babybanz.com/collections/hearing-protection/products/limited-edition-earbanz-infant-hearing-protection-sets?variant=14492627139 are a decent option. 26dB nrr should be fine.

Its the car seats that are a problem... Those thing are huge!  Only fit in the back seat of my extended cab truck if the front seat is all the way forward... Ill measure next time I'm at the hangar.

[Ragsf15e]

To be honest, I'm not even sure i can get a carseat in the back without removing the front seat!  The gap between copilot seat and door frame is very small in an F even with the seat all the way forward.

[Browncbr1]

rear facing car seats work in our F...  one in back with wife, other one in front with seat on aft notch...   once the motor starts, they fall asleep..  

my wife doesn't care for ANR headsets or ear plugs.. she says it's not very loud... but, I do cruise at 2250-2300 rpm..   They hold their ears during take off though.. 

[mooniac15u]

I used to put  two car seats in the back of my M20D. Only one was an infant seat. The rear-facing seats when they are little are more of a challenge than car seats for older kids. Also, not all car seats are the same dimensions. We went to Babies-R-Us with a tape measure and found the one with the smallest base so that the older kid would fit behind me. I'll try to find some photos later. 

[carusoam]

Unfortunately modern (y2k) car seats didn't allow two seats to fit in the back.  My kids are Children of the M20C...

My two kids were spread over two years.  So the older one got to use the next age level of safety seat.

One challenge I had was the two adults wanted to sit up front because...

Later in life, The wife preferred the modern comforts of the back seat of the O.

With the wife in the back seat opens  a new world of flexibility.  She can tend to children at all locations of the plane...

Car seats provide for two important levels of safety.  Crash protection and jarring protection from turbulance.

Crashes don't happen very often, but jarring happens quite often.  I have seen things go from the seat to the ceiling a couple of times.  When you see an iPad lift off, your heart feels for it.  If it were an unrestrained child lifting off, that would be really much worse.

Following those thoughts...

where does the smallest car seat fit? Front seat, back seat, cargo seat - it's as comfortable as any others.

Yes I said cargo seat.  The C152 has child seats for that area.  My dog likes that seat.

Important details are the ability to keep the seat attached tightly to the plane.  Tie downs and seat belts work pretty well for this.  The car seats are really good at holding the children in place.

i tried different ideas on at the store.  A base that is attached to the seat and the child carrier that locks in and is easy to release sounded really optimal.  It was gigantic and even one didn't fit well...

Try this out before ever leaving the ground....  If Momma is on board with all it takes to get two quality seats in place, you have the solution halfway in place already.

Then review the process of loading and offloading children as quickly as possible.  Who is responsible for what. Somebody once said... The more you prepare, the less you will need it.  Find a way.

Having two real car seats has the advantage of being able to ride in a car at the final destination.

for sound protection there are shop style ear cups that work really the Kids didn't pull them off.

My thoughts shared.  My children have made it into their late teens.

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

You are right they are huge these days! My son is 22 now so it has been a while, but they seem to have gotten much beefer.

This one is only 17" wide:

http://us.pegperego.com/baby/primo-viaggio-4-35#product-details

For a baby that is only about 8 inches wide that is a lot of padding!

You could go to a swap meet and get an older one that might fit better.

[22 others]

My 2 kids started flying with us starting at about 18 months and 3 years old. We bought two carseats specifically for the airplane. We went to Walmart and bought the smallest carseats we could find. Leave the giant Graco at home.  They fit either through the baggage door or through front door.  Two carseats will fit in the back.  Buckling the second  seat requires some agility.

Our normal family flight has one kid in the back and one in the front. The front carseat had to be forward facing to clear the yoke. Sometimes the front kid gets passed to the back seat during flight and returned to the carseat for landing. After landing the kid is passed to Mom in the back. The carseat is removed and placed on the wing. Then the pilot gets out. while the line guy chuckles.

2 carseats plus a wife  (3 abreast) in the back would be impossible. 

Hearing protection: we use ear plugs and baby banz.  We went to the drug store and bought the softest earplugs we could find and added the baby banz on top.  For the older kid (now 5) we now use ear plugs plus a kid sized headset.  They've never had a problem with equalization while wearing earplugs. Be careful with the baby banz. Stretch the top plastic too much and they'll snap in half. 

Kids don't always follow the sterile cockpit rule. When you can grease it on with a kid crying murder in the back, you've become a better pilot than me.

[mooniac15u]

2 minutes ago, 22 others said:

Buckling the second  seat requires some agility.

That was the hardest part of the whole process!

[22 others]

Wife says: "We didn't buy the earplugs at the drugstore. We got these "Women's Earplugs"

[mooniac15u]

We used a Britax Roundabout (http://www.toysrus.com/buy/babies/britax-roundabout-g4.1-convertible-car-seat-onyx-e9lw31a-50256396 ) for the front-facing seat.  It was very compact compared to some other models.  For the infant seat we used the Graco Snugride carrier without the base.  The base definitely makes it easier to get in and out of a car but the carrier can be attached with a standard seatbelt without the base which makes it much smaller.

[MB65E]

I have had 2 car seats in the back wife in front. Advise no instrument approaches due to the kicking. Lol..

Infants might be hard with out mom. 

Lots of options,

-Matt

[ArtVandelay]

BTW, you need to climb at a sedate rate, to allow ear pressures to equalize, and flying with a kid who has a cold should be avoided, else you could cause ear damage.

[Ragsf15e]

Copy all on the instrument approaches, landing with screaming and descending slowly... Climbing slowly shouldn't be a problem near max gross at summer density altitudes here in Washington!  Good tips so far, now i need to measure my seats, figure out how to get one carseat in the back past the copilot seat and measure all the car seats at walmart!

[M20F]

3 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

my wife doesn't care for ANR headsets or ear plugs.. she says it's not very loud... but, I do cruise at 2250-2300 rpm..   They hold their ears during take off though.. 

She may think that but it is loud, a host of app's you can download onto your phone to get DB's in the cabin and it is going to be 90-100+ in just about any airplane I have ever flown in at pretty much any power setting.  I have the distinct advantage of driving John Deere tractors as a kid, graduating to a Twin Commander (straight pipes) with no Headsets, and then running around jet cargo ramp's with no hearing protection.  So these days nothing is very loud for me, but then again I can't hear much....

Can't stress how much you miss it when it goes, use protection.

Edited March 25, 2016 by M20F
added +

[Guest]

Two babes in a Mooney should not pose a challenge, Marauder does it regularly.

Clarence

[Marauder]

Two babes in a Mooney should not pose a challenge, Marauder does it regularly.

Clarence

Clarence -- absolutely right! It's when they insist on bringing along a snack when the weight and balance become a challenge.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bradp]

Can't say I've had the challenge of twins, but car seat in the back is very doable.  Rear facing car seats for infants with someone to be able to tend to them is not as easy.   You may try one in the back rear facing and one in the copilot a seat with the seat in the aft most position and mom in the back seat (behind you) to be able to get to both of them.   If you do have a forced landing impact is from the front and you'll want to have the little ones rear facing in the plane just as long as you'd have them rear facing in the car.  It does make a difference. Infants neck soft tissue mass is minimal and strength is non existent.  

 

Agree on on the baby banz.  They're decent.  Now that ours is 2.5 she wants to pipe frozen through her pink headset all time time.  It's toddler opium I swear. 

Dont forget to get them a little baby logbook- they're a lot of fun.  

[Browncbr1]

18 hours ago, M20F said:

She may think that but it is loud, a host of app's you can download onto your phone to get DB's in the cabin and it is going to be 90-100+ in just about any airplane I have ever flown in at pretty much any power setting.  I have the distinct advantage of driving John Deere tractors as a kid, graduating to a Twin Commander (straight pipes) with no Headsets, and then running around jet cargo ramp's with no hearing protection.  So these days nothing is very loud for me, but then again I can't hear much....

Can't stress how much you miss it when it goes, use protection.

I agree, I told her it's 90-93 decibels in cruise and it's probably ok for a short time, but long flights are not good for you... I think I'll lay down the law.. 

yea, hearing loss sucks.. I can't hear very well out of my left ear from shooting...   I also wonder if ANR headsets actually just give a false sense of protection.. 

[Ragsf15e]

Brad and Jim,

thanks so much for those photos, there's hope!  I think the next couple of years with carseats will be the hard time.  Jim, your gurls look great back there without the seats! Very comfortable!  I'm going to measure the back seat carefully and then hit Baby's R Us and Wallyworld to find the narrowest seats.  I just hope they haven't got too much bigger in the last few years! Seriously, today's carseats are much safer, but they are huge!

 

thanks again for the hope!

drew

 

[Shadrach]

 I think I could squeeze 2 of our car seats into the rear seat on f the mooney.

http://simpleparenting.co/car-seat/

We bought all of the modular crap - stroller, car seat, car seat stroller adapter, car seat base. We looked at it all unpacked in our living room, what a mess. I then assembled everything to assessed how well all the components worked with one another. I boxed it all up and sent it all back to Amazon. 

For $500 we got one of these. I would never use anything else, but with twins, this probably won't work with two stand alone strollers.

[carusoam]

Use this like an outlook to help plan your next steps.  Child seats are limited by time in use.  But the rest of this stuff is optional....

My favorite part of being me with kids...  The backpacks specificly for putting kids on your back.

1) They started with the cradle that you carry around by the handle. Tough on your arm...  Next step is the front mounted back pack.

2) As they grow strong enough to sit up, they go everywhere in a back pack.  Including the mall and grocery store without blocking the aisles... (Mom hated big strollers)

3) When they get a few years older they sit on your shoulders

4) when they weigh too much for your shoulders, it's time for them to walk the two miles on the NJ Boardwalk themselves...

5) car seats quickly get traded in for booster seats and then they want their own headsets....

6) Booster seats get traded for cushions.

7) We had two back packs.  It takes some teamwork to saddle-up and get hiking.  As the kids get old enough, they know where to put their own feet.  One per hole...

8) there is some danger involved, two legs in one hole means the child can slip to the ground.  That was a teaching moment...

9) the older kids love it when you pick them up by the waist, lift them past your head, flip them over your head and their feet go in the holes.  Verify with the rider that all is good before letting go.  Child checklists, Mooney style!  Same method is used for loading them on your shoulders...

I had forgotten the finer parts of Mooney parenthood.  The round trip from the airport to the far end of Boardwalk is five miles.  Pizza, French fries, and soda, yet no weight gained...

thanks for sharing the memories...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ragsf15e]

Ok, i measured today... It's going to be tight!  How hard is it to take the seat back off the copilot seat and just leave the base?  Mine are high with built in headrest.  If i could do that, it's easy... Wife seats in back on co pilot side with one car seat in front of her and one behind me.

Does the seat back come off easy?