ChristianGodin Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I have 300 hours on a 201 thal I sold. Need something else. Mooney Ovation or Cirrus SR22. My hart is bouncing, my wife is with Cirrus. Reasons shute and resale value. Really confused... Can anyone convince me? I would really appreciate your help. Thank You Quote
gsengle Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Are you sure of better resale on Cirrus? I have believed they depreciate badly. Also the chute repacks are not inexpensive. Thinking new or used? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote
ChristianGodin Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Posted March 12, 2016 Looking for a 2000/2003 Ovation or a 2005 SR22 with are pretty much the same price; around 215 000$ to 225 000$ asking price. Quote
gsengle Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Mooney has greater range, is faster and more fuel efficient. Long body is very comfortable and with just two on board the passenger sits back a bit for plenty of room. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
ChristianGodin Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Posted March 12, 2016 Your right. I'd like to go from Fort Lauderdate to Portorico non stop with plenty of reserve.... and I hate spending on fuel even if some say 80 hours/year does not make a big difference.... Quote
Piloto Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Looking at the specs on their websites the M20R is 14kts faster than the SR22. On a 1000nm trip you will arrive half hour earlier on the M20R. If you carry a lot of luggage the M20R top baggage door is a must. You can easily pack luggage on top with no problem. On the SR22 the side door limits the amount of luggage because you cannot put luggage on top. The SR22 cabin is 6 inches wider but I never found cabin width to be a problem on the Mooney. The pilot door on the SR22 is just another source of noise more than a convenience, like on the Cessnas. José 2 Quote
DAVIDWH Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 You gotta buy the Cirrus or when the engine quits in the Mooney, the last words you will ever hear will be, "You never listen to me and see I told you so", and you might even be thinking, this one time she may have been right. My choice, M-20R. Best. DH Quote
ChristianGodin Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Posted March 12, 2016 I also would prefer a Garmin 500 with a 750 and 650 than those unreliable Avidyne or G1000 incorporating everything in a one bloc. I also like the retractable gear for no other reasons than pure speed looking... But the shute is something that comes back to my mind now and then espacially when fling at night,,, even though it is pure markething... Quote
M20S Driver Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 1 hour ago, ChristianGodin said: I have 300 hours on a 201 thal I sold. Need something else. Mooney Ovation or Cirrus SR22. My hart is bouncing, my wife is with Cirrus. Reasons shute and resale value. Really confused... Can anyone convince me? I would really appreciate your help. Thank You Call your insurance agency and compare... They may be able to convince you Next read the accident reports--- I was where you are three years ago and went with Mooney. My wife still likes a parachute but she is more comfortable now that she is somewhat familiar with the plane. 1 Quote
Piloto Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) On 3/11/2016 at 9:23 PM, ChristianGodin said: I also would prefer a Garmin 500 with a 750 and 650 than those unreliable Avidyne or G1000 incorporating everything in a one bloc. I also like the retractable gear for no other reasons than pure speed looking... But the shute is something that comes back to my mind now and then espacially when fling at night,,, even though it is pure markething... At night or day that chute can put you on a 230,000 volts transmission line. At night I check for near airports, water bodies and roads on my G530W. José Edited March 13, 2016 by Piloto 1 Quote
ChristianGodin Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Posted March 12, 2016 Thanks, good idea, I will call my ins brooker and I will transfer that to my wife. Quote
Deb Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 35 minutes ago, ChristianGodin said: Your right. I'd like to go from Fort Lauderdate to Portorico non stop with plenty of reserve.... and I hate spending on fuel even if some say 80 hours/year does not make a big difference.... KFXE to TJBQ (Aguadilla, PR) is 860 nm; KFXE to San Juan, PR is 909 nm. We have done this trip several times, at ~175 kts burning ~13.6 g/hr. So estimate 70-75 gals in still air. That's comfortable in an Ovation which holds ~100 gals. If it only holds 89 gals, it's possible to get extended range tanks; José (Piloto) can speak to this! We met an SR22 pilot who flew regularly between TJBQ and KFXE. He said he'd never made the trip non-stop; he'd always stop in Stella Maris, Bahamas. 1 Quote
RobertE Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 You know, you posed this question on Mooneyspace so there should be no surprise as to the answer. I'm guessing had you posed it on whatever forum those pretenders who own Cirruses post you'd have gotten a different answer. So maybe a Cessna 182? Nah. Just joking. 4 Quote
Piloto Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 39 minutes ago, Deb said: KFXE to TJBQ (Aguadilla, PR) is 860 nm; KFXE to San Juan, PR is 909 nm. We have done this trip several times, at ~175 kts burning ~13.6 g/hr. So estimate 70-75 gals in still air. That's comfortable in an Ovation which holds ~100 gals. If it only holds 89 gals, it's possible to get extended range tanks; José (Piloto) can speak to this! We met an SR22 pilot who flew regularly between TJBQ and KFXE. He said he'd never made the trip non-stop; he'd always stop in Stella Maris, Bahamas. All M20M/R/S hold 100 gallons when filled to the skin top. 89 gallons when filled to the bottom end of the internal conduit. Adding the long range tanks increases the capacity to 130 gallons total. Stopping in the Bahamas force you to make Customs in PR or Florida. Stopping for fuel adds two hours to the trip. And that is assuming the ramp fuel pump is working and that there is fuel and electricity. If you land at noon time allow two hours for the lineman lunch break (lunch and siesta). Lineman is never before 9am at the ramp. Carry US dollars because the credit card terminal may not work. Change back may be in Bahamian dollars. If you fly above FL120 non stop you will not need to talk to Bahama Radio but to Miami or San Juan Center. Buen Viaje José 1 Quote
PMcClure Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Compare insurance rates, then ask yourself and your wife why the Cirrus is twice as much to insure if it is safer than the Mooney? And this from the professionals who only make money if their bets are correct! Compare range with different fuel loads. Compare speed and operating costs. Mooney, wins in all of these objective categories, easily. And then go fly a Cirrus for an hour or two. Mooney still wins, in feel, noise, not to mention that goofy side stick. But these things are subjective. Edited March 12, 2016 by PMcClure Quote
Godfather Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I think you would be happy with either one. I'd suggest getting FIKI on the plane if you are planning on routes taking you close to the Great Lakes during the winter. I'm not sure what year Cirrus added the known icing... The Cirrus / Ovation / etc aircraft depreciate quickly during the first 10 years so you should be able to find deal out there. Quote
carusoam Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Bring wife, sit in Long Body Mooney, she likes, you buy... The newer, the better... WAAS, color screens, ADSB weather, GPSS. Big color touch screen GTN. AOA. Everything will look more modern than your old 201... If you have to discuss that the chute doesn't work so well on the turn to final during a stall/spin situation or other mishaps at ground level. You have already lost the battle. Save the marriage!!! in the early 90s, there were a bunch of IO550 related engine outages. Mooney had a couple and Cirrus had statistically more. The oil cooler decided to drain the oil in flight. There must be a handful of chute pulls related to the original oil cooler design. At least one O gracefully landed on a golf course somewhere. I'm sure the golfers weren't happy. what has caused the last few chute pulls? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
BobAustin Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Owned BOTH...I had my 201/missile (IO550) for years and sold it when I bought a 2007 SR22TN Cirrus. Cirrus was loaded and pretty etc and with turbo would cruise at 195k at 17000. But LOP fuel flow about 17.5gph. Missile 180-185k at 13000 @13gph...On my usual trip of 650 miles the Cirrus would save at most 15 min if no big headwinds at the higher altitude. Oh and burned about 15 more gallons. Did not like using my left hand on the side stick vs Mooney yoke. Baggage loading awkward as Jose pointed out. the Cirrus was needing 15k exhaust/intercooler upgrade and in a few years the 12k chute upgrade. oh and the 3x cost Cirrus was depreciating like pressing the down button on an elevator. Bought back my Missile and very happy...fast, low maintenance...and 1/3 the cost . Contact me if u want more info. 7 Quote
aviatoreb Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 3 hours ago, carusoam said: Bring wife, sit in Long Body Mooney, she likes, you buy... The newer, the better... WAAS, color screens, ADSB weather, GPSS. Big color touch screen GTN. AOA. Everything will look more modern than your old 201... If you have to discuss that the chute doesn't work so well on the turn to final during a stall/spin situation or other mishaps at ground level. You have already lost the battle. Save the marriage!!! in the early 90s, there were a bunch of IO550 related engine outages. Mooney had a couple and Cirrus had statistically more. The oil cooler decided to drain the oil in flight. There must be a handful of chute pulls related to the original oil cooler design. At least one O gracefully landed on a golf course somewhere. I'm sure the golfers weren't happy. what has caused the last few chute pulls? Best regards, -a- There do seem to be a lot of engine out chute pulls in Cirrus in the news. Is it because we hear about them more - because a chute pull makes the national news? Or because they are loosing their engines more often than other airplanes? I don't know. If they are loosing their engines more often - you are guessing something mechanical with the IO550 install - oil? I would guess they are running out of fuel more often than the general rate since cirrus owners I have generally seen have been generally get in and go sorts, less inclined for check lists, etc. So its the plane (or its advertising) that attracts a certain breed of pilot rather than the plane's fault itself. Quote
carusoam Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Back in '94, the IO550 was freshly being put into use in the O and Cirrus. The engine mounted oil coolers were developing leaks and causing significant problems. Oil oilers got inspected, fixed or replaced. The NTSB had a few records. Probably an AD at the time. I don't recall correctly... 6 or more qts being dumped overboard is probably hard to miss the tell tale signs, after the event. Best regards, -a- Quote
LANCECASPER Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I know of a beautiful Ovation for sale : ) 2 Quote
carusoam Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 There was an Acclaim in MA for sale too. Christian, are you able to travel to go see a really nice O in TX? ^^^ While in TX, there is AAA... Buying a specialized plane is a lot of work just to go see them as they are spread around the continent... Once you have it the fun really starts... Transition training is going to be really smooth going from a J to an O. Kind of a reacquaintance... Best regards, -a- Quote
kevinw Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I know of a beautiful Ovation for sale : ) Great looking O. Love the color. If I were in the market you and I would be talking! Quote
gsengle Posted March 13, 2016 Report Posted March 13, 2016 The only thing that would have tilted things the other direction for me would have been if I needed to do lots of night flying - then the chute is a very good thing - although I'm cringing just thinking about waiting for impact in the dark, not knowing if road, tree, lake, house, power line, etc etc... So I just don't fly much after dark... Now I'm lusting after the new DA 62, no chute, 2nd engine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Guest Posted March 13, 2016 Report Posted March 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, gsengle said: The only thing that would have tilted things the other direction for me would have been if I needed to do lots of night flying - then the chute is a very good thing - although I'm cringing just thinking about waiting for impact in the dark, not knowing if road, tree, lake, house, power line, etc etc... So I just don't fly much after dark... Now I'm lusting after the new DA 62, no chute, 2nd engine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk For the well north of 1 million dollar price you could completely rebuild a Piper Twin Comanche and have 800,000 or more in the bank. Clarence Quote
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