jetdriven Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 You lay up 5 wet plies (.050") of 7781 fiberglass and epoxy over a form then vacuum bag it to cure. MGS epoxy cures at room temperature. After 5 hours pop them off the forms and bash to fit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Maybe it's just my plane but I get almost no air out of the overhead vents. So it seems like you'd have to solve that issue before you'd want to restrict it down even more with eyeball vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I discovered the front of the plenum is open. It's about a 3/4 x 5" open area. Two years ago I shoved a foam piece in there and the air blew from the front vents like a hurricane but the foam slipped out. So the solution is ABS or fiberglass to cover up that front plenum hole. A J has a larger scoop than an older Mooney. But by sealing up the plenum and having 4 low-restriction vents to get the air out you can optimize what you have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Our 1964 D has the eyelet vents and Im really happy with how well they cool things off and the flow can be effectively directed. i was wondering how the rotory style vents performed seems like the comments here are they don't work as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 It went unanswered in 2012, but I guess I'll ask it again. Has anybody researched the legalities of these proposed venting mods? How does one make these changes and make the Feds content? I understand there are industrious hangar fairies and that hardly anybody ever looks up there, but what if you encounter that one cranky Fed, or A&P? This mod would be super obvious to spot as just that, a mod. Years ago, I asked around about making a whole new overhead panel for vintage planes that would upgrade the vents and the lighting to more functional LEDs. My brother is in the plastics manufacturing business and I have a background in fabrication and lighting, so it would be a very realistic project for me. However, I was told then by many professionals that it would require the STC process and that for the amount of money I might make on it, it wasn't worth the effort. I am in no way defending the Fed's position with their rigid over bearing (in my mind) STC rules. I have no problems with people's hangar fairies doing their work. I'm just saying it's something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testwest Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 What we did is replace the 1977 style headliner and vents with new and/or used parts to match the approved type design for the later models. Since all of the parts were approved for the later models, it basically was an install of approved parts. Modification of the interior with new materials such as the composites proposed will be more complex from a regulatory point (for STC) due to the requirement to meet the interior flammability requirements. Don't have the FAR 23 paragraph that speaks to this right in front of me, but it should be easy enough to find on the FAA RGL site. I wonder if the new certification rules for small airplanes would also apply to modifiers? Sure would be nice to be able to STC something without costing more than the market would support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I've heard several people say that a 201 window will greatly increase the airflow through the vents on the older planes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Fabricating a whole new ceiling panel might raise eyes, but modifying the vent to accept a modern vent sounds to me like a minor alteration or even a FAR 43 owner-approved repair of decorative furnishings in the cabin. The ABS plastic interior panels in the older planes is not fire resistant by any stretch. Later models use fiberglass and epoxy. If the Structural Repair Manual is any clue, they likely mix antimony trioxide 5% by weight to make it flame retardant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I've heard several people say that a 201 window will greatly increase the airflow through the vents on the older planes You may be onto something. I have the 201 windshield and have no issues with the old style round vents and air flow. Sent using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 On the subject of flow... the original plenum under the plastic headliner is also plastic. And it was full of some sort of hair-like filter material. Between the cracked plastic and all the junk inside it, I was stunned any air reached the original front vents at all. Patching all the cracks and rigging the front so that SCEET tubes direct air to the vents and nowhere else brings a massive amount of air to the front seats. I rarely had to open the scoop all the way. On the subject of legality... I signed off the work under part 43 appendix A owner maintenance: "Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft." Neither I nor my IA was of the opinion that the plastic headliner or the old vent plates were primary structures, so they could be replaced provided the new parts were appropriate (burn certified, that sort of thing) and didn't interfere with any primary structures or systems. I bought only certified parts from Plane Plastics and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 You may be onto something. I have the 201 windshield and have no issues with the old style round vents and air flow. Sent using Tapatalk That's my experience too. The vents blow OK as they are, but I have the 201 windshield. I just don't like the cheesy, crappy design and the overhead lighting is seriously lame. I wish I could rip it all down and go to town, but... there is the FAA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple8s Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 "Maybe it's just my plane but I get almost no air out of the overhead vents. So it seems like you'd have to solve that issue before you'd want to restrict it down even more with eyeball vents. I had the crappy rotary style and "those @&$) lights" which I hated, so I removed the inferior and replaced the rotary vents and the lights I replaced with adjustable LEDs . The LEDs worked great although I did make I dimmer circuit they were adjustable from nil to full bright and I had 6 so there was no place on the panel left in the dark. The vents I replaced with the eyeball style and unfortunately they didn't work out the flow or pressure just wasn't right for them. I even removed the headliner ra second time to seal up every tiny leak I could find but no joy. I think when the went to the dorsal air inlet it was for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaacpr7 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Hang on I may develop a Fiberglas piece to transition to the euro vents and fill the hole in the headliner too Jetdrive, Have you had any progress on the fabrication of the fiberglass piece to transition to euro vents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyTex Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 Hello all, First time posting here. Hope I'm not re-hashing an old topic here, but am now facing the same challenge. Would like to go from round vents to wemac, euro, or even Tahoe car vents in my F with 201 windshield. Airflow is fine, just want to update the old cracked ones and hopefully solve the rattle that comes from them. We've got the headliner out. No clue how to fabricate the transition piece between the plenum and any new vent. Looks like a number of you have solved for this. Anyone have something they are really happy with that could be reproduced --maybe that fiberglass transition of @jetdriven. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah20Gflyer Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 2 hours ago, MooneyTex said: Hello all, First time posting here. Hope I'm not re-hashing an old topic here, but am now facing the same challenge. Would like to go from round vents to wemac, euro, or even Tahoe car vents in my F with 201 windshield. Airflow is fine, just want to update the old cracked ones and hopefully solve the rattle that comes from them. We've got the headliner out. No clue how to fabricate the transition piece between the plenum and any new vent. Looks like a number of you have solved for this. Anyone have something they are really happy with that could be reproduced --maybe that fiberglass transition of @jetdriven. Thanks! I did the conversion using thermoformed abs plastic adapters I made myself. It turned out quite nicely and was pretty cheap if you exclude all the time I put into it. You should be able to find my thread where I documented it with lots of pictures. I’ll attach an after pic here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted June 3, 2023 Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 I did the conversion using thermoformed abs plastic adapters I made myself. It turned out quite nicely and was pretty cheap if you exclude all the time I put into it. You should be able to find my thread where I documented it with lots of pictures. I’ll attach an after pic here. This is what I did with my vents. The old were basically falling a apart.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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