Renew Jeppesen or Get iPad Mini/Foreflight or ?

[kortopates]

33 minutes ago, carqwik said:

Do the other free products like Avare provide geo-referenced charts?  I tried to determine this on the Avare website but was unable to verify.

So far, my takeaway is that once you go to electronic, you never come back to paper....I may have to make the switch...

Fltplan.com has a free Go Flight app that runs on the ipad and android. It has geo-referenced approach plates and Ads-B in. It has a lot of capabilities for free including some of the best tablet based aircraft performance modeling but its user interface is the worst IMO making it more than just cumbersome to use. You pretty much get what you pay for. The much more popular products that cost $75-150 (vfr to ifr) year are orders of magnitude better. But what different folks like is more a personal choice and what they learned on first. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by kortopates

[LANCECASPER]

Step 1 - Get a cellular version (built in GPS) iPad with at least 32gb of storage

Step 2 - Download Foreflight and Garmin Pilot - use their free trials and see which one you like better. You can't go wrong with either.

Step 3 - Once you've decided which program, get a Stratus 2 (Foreflight) or a GDL 393D (Garmin Pilot) and you'll have synthetic vision, geo-referenced plates for the whole country, weather, traffic and a backup Attitude Indicator.

Total cost $1500-$1800 for the 1st yr and about $150-$200 every year after that.

Edited February 24, 2016 by LANCECASPER

[midlifeflyer]

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Step 1 - Get an cellular version (built in GPS) iPad with at least 32gb of storage

Step 2 - Download Foreflight and Garmin Pilot - use their free trials and see which one you like better. You can't go wrong with either.

Step 3 - Once you've decided which program, get a Stratus 2 (Foreflight) or a GDL 393D (Garmin Pilot) and you'll have synthetic vision, geo-referenced plates for the whole country, weather, traffic and a backup Attitude Indicator.

Total cost $1500-$1800 for the 1st yr and about $150-$200 every year after that.

I would not limit myself to testing only two of the top three iPad apps to see which UI I liked better. I can see not bothering with the others but as long as one has decided on an iPad and is testing things out, why not add a mature app like WingX? 

i must have missed the memo on Step 1. I'm on my third iPad. Bought my first about 5 years ago. None cellular.

[Hank]

All Samsung Galaxy tablets are GPS equipped, even those that are not cellular. This will save a lot in Step 1.

What about the various free apps? This will save a lot in Step 2.

then Step 3 becomes buying a traffic system compatible with the free software from Step 2. Initial buy in just fell several hindered, and recurring costs fell by another $150-200/year. Buy last year's Galaxy, go with free apps and total costs will be Stratus/whatever plus about $200, recurring costs will be zero. Can't help it, I'm a CB with no traffic reporting.

[midlifeflyer]

Just now, Hank said:

All Samsung Galaxy tablets are GPS equipped, even those that are not cellular. This will save a lot in Step 1.

What about the various free apps? This will save a lot in Step 2.

then Step 3 becomes buying a traffic system compatible with the free software from Step 2. Initial buy in just fell several hindered, and recurring costs fell by another $150-200/year. Buy last year's Galaxy, go with free apps and total costs will be Stratus/whatever plus about $200, recurring costs will be zero. Can't help it, I'm a CB with no traffic reporting.

If I were first looking into it now and my needs were strictly VFR, that would probably be the way I would go. And as a VFR CB who cared about having ADS-B weather and traffic, I'd probably use my home-built Stratux.

[carqwik]

I ordered a refurb Nexus 7 32GB tablet (Gen 2) from Amazon for $140.  Now the question is what software for the Android?  And what is the best mounting system for a mini tablet in the Mooney?

LIkely I will try out a few of the free apps first...Avare? Fltplan? first and see how it goes...

[Glenn]

FWIW, I used Jepps for 30 years and switched to Foreflight about 5 years ago, and could not be happier.  It is a good product that continues to improve.  My only advice is to reiterate a point already mentioned, be sure to get an iPad with WiFi so you get benefit of the built-in GPS.

[Oldguy]

I embraced the dark side (Apple) several years ago and fly with an iPad, iPad Retina mini and an iPhone 6S all with FF on them. While I still keep my paper POH in the cabin, I scanned and indexed it with Adobe and loaded it into FF in the documents section. Likewise my standard checklists (no emergency checklists on the electronics) are in FF. The Stratus 2 I have provides weather, and now with the KT 74, very good ADS-B traffic on both the iPads.

From ForeFlight I can print any chart I want on my $99 HP printer at the house and carry them with me if I choose.

Remember how you always hear it is good to read your POH every so often? I found if I took it out of the plane to read, it might not make it back every time, but with it in the FF documents, I can pull it up whenever I feel like spinning through it.

Final note: the mini does not have cellular, but the one time we have needed to do something with it away from a wi-fi hot spot, I tethered it to the cell phone and it worked just like expected.

So try out a bunch of different apps and hardware to see if one works better than another for you. Never know what you may find.

[steingar]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

All Samsung Galaxy tablets are GPS equipped, even those that are not cellular. This will save a lot in Step 1.

I don't know that much about them, so I could be wrong.  All iPads are GPS equipped as well.  However, the GPS in the non-cellular iPads is insufficient for aerial navigation.  You can use it to drive around town, but it won't update worth poo in the airplane.  Don't know if that's the case for the Galaxy tablets, but I'd want to find out before I invested in one.

Turns out I use the iPad at work a lot, so I don't mind the investment.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, carqwik said:

I ordered a refurb Nexus 7 32GB tablet (Gen 2) from Amazon for $140.  Now the question is what software for the Android?  And what is the best mounting system for a mini tablet in the Mooney?

LIkely I will try out a few of the free apps first...Avare? Fltplan? first and see how it goes...

I fly with an iPad but use an Android tablet for backup. I've used most of the EFB apps available for both. Here's my take on the Android side of the equation. The order is alphabetical on purpose. My preference does not have to be yours. Try a few of them.

I'm not a big fan of the two top free ones - Avare and FltPlan Go!  if the mission is IFR flight. Having used both, I don't find either of them stable enough for that kind of reliability. For VFR, I guess they are OK.

In the pay-for world, I'd take a look at:

• Adventure Pilot's iFlyGPS - this company has been around for a while. They were competing with Garmin in the 196/296/395/496 handheld market. About two years ago, they decided to jump feet first into tablets. They still sell their own hardware unit but have apps for both Android and iOS. All three work exactly the same and have by far the most customizable user interface I have ever seen. They have their own online forum, respnd uickly to users, and a loyal following, many of whom have been with them for years.
• AvNav EFB - has what I think is a good interface and some features ForeFlight users have really liked, like charts over the map. The biggest downside is being a one-man operation with only a small user base. But he does seem committed and is extraordinarily responsive to customers.
• DroidEFB, formerly FlightPro formerly Avilution Aviation Maps. The name changes were the result of some business problems when the original developers brought in some new investors. The problem resulted in litigation which almost knocked them out. But they survived and have a loyal but small (most have small followings). Avilution and Naviator were the very first viable Andorid EFBs, so if longevity counts for you....
• Garmin Pilot - Yep, the 500 lb gorilla has twin offerings for iPad and Android. The Android one tends to lag a bit behind the iOS version, probably because of the smaller Android EFB market. Other than it being a major player in anything aviation GPS related, one of its strongest points is the similarity in UI among Garmin products. The main menu in Pilot is very similar to the main menu in the GTN600/700 certified panel mounts.

Honorable mention but not a recommendation (yet) goes to WingX Pro. The is the app that was there neck-and-neck with ForeFlight at the very beginning of the iPad revolution. It's iOS followers will tell you, with some justification, that if you see a great new feature on ForeFlight, WingX had it first.  Finally giving into customer requests, Hilton Software has released a Android version. But, it is still way behind the iPad version in feature set. If it ever gets up to snuff, I would stack it up with anything else out there.

Lots of choices, huh?

 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

I don't know that much about them, so I could be wrong.  All iPads are GPS equipped as well.  However, the GPS in the non-cellular iPads is insufficient for aerial navigation.  You can use it to drive around town, but it won't update worth poo in the airplane.  Don't know if that's the case for the Galaxy tablets, but I'd want to find out before I invested in one.

Turns out I use the iPad at work a lot, so I don't mind the investment.

GPS capability is associated with the mobile data chip for 3G/4G connectivity. Without a 3G/4G capable iPad, location services are WiFi based, no GPS capability.

[Hank]

49 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

GPS capability is associated with the mobile data chip for 3G/4G connectivity. Without a 3G/4G capable iPad, location services are WiFi based, no GPS capability.

This is what I've found. But my 1st Gen wifi Galaxy 7" tablet shows position well with Avare. 

Unlike midlifeflyer, I don't trust ANY app running on a tablet for IFR navigation. They are ALL for situational awareness only. If you've got to use a tablet to navigate in IMC, please don't do it near me . . .

[jonhop]

On 2/23/2016 at 10:02 AM, Hank said:

The ipad mini is a sweet machine, if you can handle the typical Apple product frustration--you can't load anything onto it without going through apple, you can't get anything out of it without going through apple, there are no memory cards, no card slots, no USB ports, no nothing without going through apple. Within those limits, the ipad mini is great.

I still have an ancient Galaxy 7" tablet, and I keep [free!] Avare on it and on my Samsung phone. Every now and then I will update plates, sectionals, enroutes, WACs, whatever I need. Although the [also free!] FlightPlanGO! looks quite tempting. Avare is great for planning long flights, but it will not file the flight plan for you, which is fine because I still call the 800 number for a last minute weather briefing and my flights are almost always direct [except I've learned the two routes around ATL since Approach is allergic to through-traffic using the approved T-routes.

Play with the free ones and see if you like it. I still buy bound NOAA plates and paper sectionals, I like to be able to look ahead more than 3-4", no zooming in and out required.

 

Hank,

What version of Avare are you running? Filing flight plans works for me...

[carqwik]

Here's my thought about IFR.  I am with Hank about lack of trust in an electronic device.  However, one of the great things about the web is that I can go to Airnav or other places (maybe even the FAA?) and print out some charts specific to my departure/destination/alternates.  Enroute charts can be outdated ones that I might buy new every two years or so...as a back up.

My thought about the Android is that I figured it was cheaper to dip my toe in at first with a lower cost tablet...and see if I can make it work.  Apple wants $629 for an iPad Mini sufficient for FF...that was just too much dinero at first since I don't even know if I like using an EFB.  And given that the lifespan of most electronic devices is sufficiently short (maybe a few years), I can go with Apple later if need be.

What gets me is that Jeppesen's pricing seems out of bounds for the product relative to the competitive electronic solutions.  I was only getting the southwest charts and the Jeppview computer program.  One might think that for a now outmoded distribution method, the price should fall...perhaps to $100 or so per year to keep me from jumping ship to an electronic solution.  So I got pushed by the pricing mostly as well as comments from lots of pilots who vouch for the EFB solutions.

[Hank]

Never tried to file with any EFB. Always do that on the phone after finishing the weather briefing.

[kpaul]

17 minutes ago, Hank said:

Never tried to file with any EFB. Always do that on the phone after finishing the weather briefing.

I don't use my EFB to file but I do use the 1-800 wx brief web site (https://www.1800wxbrief.com/Website/#!/)  It works great and you still get the full wx briefing, just online.

I agree with not using an EFB as primary navigation, but they will get you out of a jam.  I love if for electronic charts and approach plates.  I have used both foreflight and jeppesen apps. 

[Godfather]

For those who are looking to buy an iPad look around a month or so to find a deal on techbargains or similar.  Should be paying ~ $250 for a mini retina, $350 on an air, or around $650 on the new pro.  Also if you are planning on picking up a stratus it has a gps so you can skip the iPad gps.

[Marauder]

Never tried to file with any EFB. Always do that on the phone after finishing the weather briefing.

Is that after you rub sticks together to create fire?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jonhop]

56 minutes ago, Hank said:

Never tried to file with any EFB. Always do that on the phone after finishing the weather briefing.

 

30 minutes ago, kpaul said:

I don't use my EFB to file but I do use the 1-800 wx brief web site (https://www.1800wxbrief.com/Website/#!/)  It works great and you still get the full wx briefing, just online.

I agree with not using an EFB as primary navigation, but they will get you out of a jam.  I love if for electronic charts and approach plates.  I have used both foreflight and jeppesen apps. 

I use Avare for flight planning in the early stage and file the plan I create. I then use www.1800wxbrief.com to get the outlook and standard brief before the flight. Before takeoff, I activate the flight plan on my tablet through my phone's dataplan. It can't get much easier than that IMHO...

17 minutes ago, Godfather said:

For those who are looking to buy an iPad look around a month or so to find a deal on techbargains or similar.  Should be paying ~ $250 for a mini retina, $350 on an air, or around $650 on the new pro.  Also if you are planning on picking up a stratus it has a gps so you can skip the iPad gps.

There are rumors that Apple will be announcing an iPad Air 3 in the middle of March, so if you want Apple devices, it may be beneficial to wait a little longer, as prices on the Air2 and older devices will go down significantly... 

[ArtVandelay]

I always use GP to file, but sometimes cancel doesn't work, so I call to cancel.

[DonMuncy]

I'm glad to know I'm not the only dinosaur. I still call for a weather briefing. But I do file on Fltplan.com

[Andy95W]

2 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I'm glad to know I'm not the only dinosaur. I still call for a weather briefing. But I do file on Fltplan.com

Same here, except I file and brief with CSC Duats. 

My nod to modern technology is I get a text message with my actual routing if it isn't "as filed".

[jlunseth]

You can't beat Foreflight on an iPad.  Get a cigarette lighter plug, plug it into the socket in the panel, and you will not run out of batteries, not that you ever would in a normal flight.  

Actually, you can beat Foreflight and an iPad, get a Stratus 2 and a KT74 and you can get traffic, weather, and a backup AI.  

I like fltplan for precise flight planning, but I won't file with it.  I rarely file until right before takeoff, because I want to know the current weather.  Fltplan has a filing delay.  I file with Lockheed.  Just takes minutes, and the flight plan is entered into the system immediately.

Edited February 25, 2016 by jlunseth

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

This is what I've found. But my 1st Gen wifi Galaxy 7" tablet shows position well with Avare. 

Unlike midlifeflyer, I don't trust ANY app running on a tablet for IFR navigation. They are ALL for situational awareness only. If you've got to use a tablet to navigate in IMC, please don't do it near me . . .

First, yes. Most higher end (and many lower end) Android tablets have GPS built in.

Second, where did say or intimate I used a tablet app for primary IFR navigation? I do not. That's what certified IFR panel mounts are for.

[Hank]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 5:29 AM, midlifeflyer said:

If I were first looking into it now and my needs were strictly VFR, that would probably be the way I would go. And as a VFR CB who cared about having ADS-B weather and traffic, I'd probably use my home-built Stratux.

This is what I took to mean that free EFB on Android was "good enough for VFR." Your general pro-Apple/pro-ForeFlight led me to believe the rest. Other people do seem to feel that way, glad to see that you don't.