INA201 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Good morning, I've spent quite a few AMUs this morning window shopping and thought I could bring you guys into it. There have been a few reviews on the IFD440/550 lately and folks seem to like them. People also like the 650 it seems. What do you guys think the return on investment would be in upgrading a 430w to 650 or ifd 440 in utility, resale, etc.? As a wrench in this discussion I have a JPI 700 and it can be upgraded through Spruce for around 1.2AMUs. I'm thinking that bang for the buck might be to do the JPI/650 upgrade if you were going to spend the $ on the IFD. How much do the Avidyne subscriptions cost in comparison to Garmin too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Not someone who shys away from spending someone else's money... I have the 650 and a JPI 900. The 650 is great. That said, there is an installation cost associated with installing a new 650. The marketing genius at Avidyne figured out to take a bit out of the gorilla, lower installation cost. If the Avidyne can be a direct slide-in replacement for your plane, I would go that route after I confirmed the installed cost for the 650. Interesting they added $600 for installing in a Mooney. What's a matter with them? Just hire smaller techs! As for the JPI. I had the 830. Love it. So why do I have a 900? I realized that my 40 year factory gauges have been running for a loooong time. The 900 is primary and can replace the factory gauges. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnoe Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Yeah, what's that "add $600 for Mooneys" all about?!! I thought it was a slide-in replacement. And if there's some minor tie-in work needed I hear munchkins have high unemployment numbers right now. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I upgraded my 430w to a 650. Basically because I had a 750 and GDL 88 connected wit Garmin connect. So I went for the Garmin integration. However, otherwise I would have gone for the 440 option. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'm did the 430 non WAAS to a 650. If I had a WAAS 430, I might think about just going the Flightstream route, gets you airways and nice interface for flight plans via iPad, if you go GDL 88 route, the WX and traffic can be displayed on iPad as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I really want to go 530 -> 540, but my shop still is concerned about some of the early Avidyne glitches, so unsure... Otherwise I'll just add a flight stream and call it a day. If they added real Lynx integration that would sway me though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I would recommend to upgrade to the larger screen. Even having an old GNS 530W would be better than an IFD 440 or G650. The larger screen gives you options not available on the smaller ones. No need to keep zooming or scrolling when on approach. José 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I would recommend to upgrade to the larger screen. Even having an old GNS 530W would be better than an IFD 440 or G650. The larger screen gives you options not available on the smaller ones. No need to keep zooming or scrolling when on approach. José But if you FF,GP, or one of the other pilot apps, don't need to use screen, you can have a normal chart, or use the approach page with your position displayed ...my preference. I usually set 650 to flightplan page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 7 hours ago, cnoe said: Yeah, what's that "add $600 for Mooneys" all about?!! I thought it was a slide-in replacement. And if there's some minor tie-in work needed I hear munchkins have high unemployment numbers right now. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk that's what I'm wondering. I thought plug n play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Everyone knows Mooney owners can well afford a "sir-charge". We've got money to spare to enjoy the air. Be happy; pay up. The only difference between "Mooney" and "Money" is one "0". Edited February 18, 2016 by Mooneymite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INA201 Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Thanks guys! I haven't spoken with any avionics folks yet but was thinking that the somewhat reasonable upgrade costs might be worth it since the 430w and Jpi currently have good resale values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 The $600 surcharge is for a swear jar. The tech swears and you pay. There has to be some disincentive for the avionics shops to recommend an Avidyne slide in unit that takes ~1hr total to install, much of which is configuration and paperwork, than the several hours of shop time that are part and parcel of the installation of a 650/750 installation for re-wiring the same I/Os to a different dsub pin configuration. Same me thing goes for the new 335/345 transponders. Why create a form factor that is not a direct slide in replacement for your previous model? Just wondering... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I really like the larger screens. Went with the 750 / 650 stack and really wished I kept the 530 for one of the units or two 750's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Bennett Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 On 2/18/2016 at 11:35 AM, gsengle said: I really want to go 530 -> 540, but my shop still is concerned about some of the early Avidyne glitches, so unsure... Otherwise I'll just add a flight stream and call it a day. If they added real Lynx integration that would sway me though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm curious what concerns they have. If you want to PM the shop, I can have our Regional Sales Rep address their concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 It wasn't specific just a gut opinion. That said what's the status on Lynx integration? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N33GG Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 On 2/18/2016 at 8:40 AM, cnoe said: Yeah, what's that "add $600 for Mooneys" all about?!! I thought it was a slide-in replacement. And if there's some minor tie-in work needed I hear munchkins have high unemployment numbers right now. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Now that's funny, I don't care who you are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I currently have a 530W/430W combo and don't feel there is any compelling reason to upgrade the NAV boxes. The Flightstream 210 is very tempting, though, as it "fixes" what is arguably the worst feature of the GNS series...the interface. I've been using Garmin Pilot on an iPad Mini Retina and am pretty satisfied with it so far. (+ GDL 39 3D). The 210 would allow me to upload/sync flight plan stuff without endless knob-twisting. This isn't a huge deal for me since I rarely get routes with more than a fix or two, but it is still pretty cool functionality for modest money. I also feel like I know how to operate the GNS box, so it's quirks aren't deal-breakers for me. I'm not fond of a panel-mount MFD or having "real" charts on a panel-mounted GPS navigator due to the very high subscription cost. A modern tablet can show all that stuff for <$100 year. I've flown a little bit in another Mooney that has the 540 box and it is pretty nice. I also downloaded their simulator and played with it. It looks better and has a better interface than the GNS boxes, but at the end of the day, it cannot go anywhere or do anything that the GNS box already does. WAAS + GPSS is the cat's meow for single-pilot IFR ops. The newer boxes just have prettier screens and interfaces. Reading manufacturer web pages and forums is useful, but nothing beats hands-on time with a demo box at a show or a simulator. Go play with the new stuff and see if the pretty face justifies the cost over what you already have. I agree 100% with José's comments about getting the larger screen... The 530W is far and away more useful than a 430W due to the larger screen and NAV 1/arc view compared to the map screen on the 430W. If you only have 1 navigator, it is worth every single penny to opt for the larger screen version no matter what you brand or generation you choose. I have my 430W on the NAV 1 screen (raw data fields) 99% of the time and like that combo very much. I also have a 496 harnessed to the GNS stack so the flight plan pushes down and it offers a better moving map than either box at very modest cost. (Weather via XM is also much, much better than on a GNS box with GDL69, but I expect XM or ADS-B weather looks nice on an Avidyne 540/440 or GTN series box today.) If I had a plane today without any IFR GPS box installed, I would likely pick a GTN 750 or IFD 540. A GNS box wouldn't be under consideration because the used price + install cost is still relatively close enough to the modern stuff that it isn't worth "saving" a little bit when the technology is 15 years older. If you had some way to drastically save on install cost (ie partial DIY with a friendly shop) or got a killer deal on the box, then it might make sense, but probably not. But, since I already have GNS boxes, I'd be highly inclined to find a combo deal with Avidyne stuff since I'll get to skip 20 (?) hours of installation labor, and that is significant. My next upgrade path is likely to be a PFD instead since adding one will allow me to remove the vacuum system and those gyros, saving weight and (hopefully) avoiding future cost with gyro overhauls. If you have a King system with the KI 256 and KI 525 systems, then this becomes very, very significant. (I just have simple gyros and STEC 30 system) Upgrading this side of the panel might be wiser than the GPS box...something to think about. I'll also second the comment to talk to aerodon here about JPI upgrades. I bought an EDM-900 through him and am very happy. I love my -900 so far after using a -700 for many years. I opted to skip the -730/-830 option and go for the primary option so I could remove legacy instruments and especially get rid of wet fuel & oil lines in the cockpit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Bennett Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 2 hours ago, gsengle said: It wasn't specific just a gut opinion. That said what's the status on Lynx integration? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Nothing new to report other than what is on AviLive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'll keep reminding Avidyne that the easiest to target market is those of us that have already shown a willingness to break with Garmin by investing in something like the Lynx! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 If you are going top upgrade the JPI 700 to an 830, the current CHT and EGT probes and cabling can be used on the 830, but you would need to add all of the sensors for any options you didn't have (FF, OAT, etc.) on the 700. And unless you are installing the 830 in the same place as the 700, get the extension cables to go from your existing cable(s) to the new spot on the panel. You order the length you need from Spruce and they are custom made that length, so have a good idea of where you want to put the new unit. Too long is a bit of a pain, but too short really bites - no returns on custom cables. I currently have a 430W sitting under my MX-20 and completely agree with Jose and the rest about the larger screen. When the MX dies, it will be swapped out for the IFD 540 since they take up the same space in the panel. Yeah, a bunch of wiring to be done, but no shuffling to make it fit like a GTN 750 would require. So if you have the panel space, go for the bigger screen, but realize the GTN will eat up a full inch plus over the IFD. John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drapo Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 When it came time to WAAS my GNS430, after evaluating all options, I went with Avidyne's IFD540 over other options and don't have any regrets. Bigger screen doesn't only to show more of your map, but also datas along with maps which is one of the greatest improvement over the GNS430, if you set aside the screen resolution, ease of use, etc... So, as other have said, go for the bigger screen! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INA201 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Is it pretty easy to swap the 430w for the off 540 as long as there is space for it? In AMU terms the 830 seems like a nice improvement too. Hopefully I can swing it all in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Was there a recent price drop on the IFD440s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Bennett Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yes, we dropped the price of the IFD440 and made Terrain Alerts & Bluetooth/WiFi optional add-ons. Additionally, we now include the install kits in the price of both the IFD540 & IFD440. Sent you a PM also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supercop0184 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 So I'm in the market for a mooney now. A 430W is definitely on the must have list. I see that the original deal posted requires deposit be made by Monday. Hopefully they extend that some because I would definitely do That once I have a plane purchased Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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