New Garmin GTX transponder brings ADS-B to G1000

[Jeff_S]

Hi Trek. In the post above, David says that this won't work with the pre-2014 version of software which we have in our non-WAAS panels.  Is that correct? If so, doesn't this then require a certification process by Mooney to get us to the latest version of software before we could install the unit? My suspicion is that Mooney and Garmin have been looking at this as part of the strategy to get us non-WAASers into the modern age, with a single program that combines all the necessary elements. While you may not be able to comment on that entirely, I'd appreciate your input on the software version question.

Thanks!

[Danb]

Hello Dan,
  I'm not sure where a lot of these folks telling you are getting their information but I can assure you the AML STC that we will be publishing here in a few days covers the Mooney M20M and M20TN G1000 equipped airframes which covered the Bravo name. The new GTX and rack will be installed in place of the existing GTX 33 with some additional wiring for computer interface to configure.

But it is setup to work in the airframe.

Best Regards,

Trek A. Lawler
Supervisor, Aviation Field Service Engineering
Aviation Product Support




-----Original Message-----
From: Danbbcpa [mailto:danbbcpa@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 8:57 AM
To: Lawler, Trek 
Subject: Mooney

Good morning Trek

I rec'd your response to a question but wanted to make sure my plane is one of the ones that can accept the 345R..I have a 2005 Mooney Bravo.  G1000, 401.3. Software, with SVT.I have ordered it from the Garmin dealer but he's not sure until he gets all the install. instructions for the system. A lot of people are telling me my plane can't be done as it is now. I just wanted to see if it can .

Thank you
Dan B
Mooney. N423PS

Sent from my iPad

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[Guest]

I've ordered a 345 from our local avionics shop for my Comanche.  Hope to have it installed soon. 

Clarence

[Danb]

Clarence give a pirep when in, mine will be over a month away..

[Guest]

Will do.  Not sure of the exact date.

Clarence

[Godfather]

I'm glad that Garmin is working hard to get these units out and I hope they will be a good upgrade path for mooney g1000 pilots.  Wished I would have waited to upgrade to the 345 vs the 330es but that's the way it goes.

[PaulM]

The compatibility information is on their main web page:

GTX™ 345 Support for G1000® Aircraft

Display of GTX 345 Traffic Requires SW: GDU v7.10 & GIA 63 v5.31 (and later)
Display of GTX 345 Weather Requires SW: GDU v12.00 & GIA 63 v6.20 (and later)

Therefore with the current software rev (401.30, GDU v9.03) you will get ADSB out + the TIS-B traffic data, but not the FIS-B weather until approval of the (401.34, GDU v14.02) software by Mooney. 

The method that Garmin has chosen to support the G1000 system is by emulating their previous products.  So to the G1000 system the GTX345 mimics the behavior of the GTX33 + GDL88.  Since GDL88 support wasn't in our 401.30rev, you don't get weather.

So, the 345 will work.. but you have to define "work".  With the 345's internal WAAS GPS option, you will get ADSB out with transponder control via the G1000.  So no matter what you are 2020 covered..  If a person defines "work" as 100% of promised features, ADSB OUT+IN+UAT then no.. it doesn't "work" with our software rev. 

The only reason to wait now is if you are going to get the G1000 WAAS upgrade, and then having the GTX345 w/WASS is redundant (and an extra GPS antenna?)  

It seems likely that the cost effective solution for G1000 is going to be the GTX345 rather than the combination of GTX33ES + GDL88 for complete ADSB IN + OUT functionality. 

[TrekLawler]

22 hours ago, PaulM said:

The compatibility information is on their main web page:

GTX™ 345 Support for G1000® Aircraft

Display of GTX 345 Traffic Requires SW: GDU v7.10 & GIA 63 v5.31 (and later)
Display of GTX 345 Weather Requires SW: GDU v12.00 & GIA 63 v6.20 (and later)

Therefore with the current software rev (401.30, GDU v9.03) you will get ADSB out + the TIS-B traffic data, but not the FIS-B weather until approval of the (401.34, GDU v14.02) software by Mooney. 

The method that Garmin has chosen to support the G1000 system is by emulating their previous products.  So to the G1000 system the GTX345 mimics the behavior of the GTX33 + GDL88.  Since GDL88 support wasn't in our 401.30rev, you don't get weather.

So, the 345 will work.. but you have to define "work".  With the 345's internal WAAS GPS option, you will get ADSB out with transponder control via the G1000.  So no matter what you are 2020 covered..  If a person defines "work" as 100% of promised features, ADSB OUT+IN+UAT then no.. it doesn't "work" with our software rev. 

The only reason to wait now is if you are going to get the G1000 WAAS upgrade, and then having the GTX345 w/WASS is redundant (and an extra GPS antenna?)  

It seems likely that the cost effective solution for G1000 is going to be the GTX345 rather than the combination of GTX33ES + GDL88 for complete ADSB IN + OUT functionality. 

Paul,

   at this time there is no plans for support of the GDL 88 on the Mooney platform. this would require a minimum of GDU 15.XX software to be able to display this data. the advantage you get over this combination with the GTX 345 is the Bluetooth compatibility for display on your iPad. Just as an FYI, if your Mooney is already WAAS enabled you do not need to purchase the GTX 345 with WAAS the GPS position data will be sent from you WAAS enabled GIA 63's. so for an ADSB out and in solution this is what is referred to as working with the G1000 systems.

 

Let me know if there are any other questions,

[PaulM]

1 hour ago, TrekLawler said:

   at this time there is no plans for support of the GDL 88 on the Mooney platform. this would require a minimum of GDU 15.XX software to be able to display this data. the advantage you get over this combination with the GTX 345 is the Bluetooth compatibility for display on your iPad. Just as an FYI, if your Mooney is already WAAS enabled you do not need to purchase the GTX 345 with WAAS the GPS position data will be sent from you WAAS enabled GIA 63's. so for an ADSB out and in solution this is what is referred to as working with the G1000 systems.

 

Would you let us know which device compatibility/config tree that the GTX345 is using with the GDU12.x software for weather compatibility?  GDL88 was merely a guess.  I suppose that the GTX345 installation manual might give us hints.

We understand that if you have the GIA63W in the G1000 system that it will feed the position data to the GTX345 directly without requiring the internal GPS, but the status of  WAAS updates for many 2005-2007 Mooneys is in limbo at this time.  

Dan's and my G1000 are just two of these these early STEC installs, and he was not getting a clear statement of what works and what won't.   It seems clear that today, a non WAAS 2005 STEC requires the GTX345 with internal GPS.  The system will give ADS-B out, feed TIS-B traffic back to the G1000 via rs232, and after the 401.34 software update also provide FIS-B weather directly to the G1000. 

So, now Dan knows what to expect on Day 1, and which features will not work until future updates are performed. 

[Danb]

Paul..I'll provide you a pirep when it's installed. If I need the iPad for wx until the upgraded software is that's ok. I just ran of patience with the way Mooney has procrastinated. My gamble is right after I'm done going the route on my own Mooney will have a solid more affordable setup. Obviously I'm betting against that happening. Also since my personal minimums are higher than the lower Waas approaches it doesn't bother me not having that until I sell the plane and of course that's when I'll see the monetary loss of not having waas. We also may bump into each other I just missed you in NJ a couple months ago.

[Danb]

Paul I hope you rec'd my response..

[Jeff_S]

Dan, we will look forward to your PIREP to see how the GTX345 is working.  As for me, this is actually getting pretty close to all I want. I wasn't likely to give up XM weather anyway, since I think it's better than ADS-B weather, but I would like TIS-B traffic which should have much better coverage than TIS-A. And while it would (will? hopefully?) be awesome to have LPV approaches, the fact is that I can probably live without the extra 150 feet of lower minimums based on how I fly.

For me, the real value of WAAS has been to be ADS-B compliant, and to help the resale value of my airplane. The good news is that there do seem to be some realistic choices now coming to market. 

[Danb]

1 hour ago, Jeff_S said:

 

For me, the real value of WAAS has been to be ADS-B compliant, and to help the resale value of my airplane. The good news is that there do seem to be some realistic choices now coming to market. 

 

[Danb]

Jeff...couldn't agree more.

[Guest]

I spoke with my avionics shop owner yesterday, he says Gamin is a few weeks from shipping the GTX 345. He suggested the Lynx by L-3, the price has come down and it has traffic as well.  Anyone have one installed yet?

Clarence

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I spoke with my avionics shop owner yesterday, he says Gamin is a few weeks from shipping the GTX 345. He suggested the Lynx by L-3, the price has come down and it has traffic as well.  Anyone have one installed yet?

Clarence

I have the L3 Lynx Clarence, It is the berries. All in one box like the 345 but also will display traffic and wx, winds, metars on a split touch screen, unlike the 345. it plays nice with the Aspen, Ipad and the Garmin toys I have in the plane. One nice feature is it is scalable like the Aspen for future functionality (can you say wifi in negating the flightstream add on?).

I am sure Garmin's 345 price point will have to be competitively matched by L3,

[Danb]

The 345 has been shipped, mine arrived last week and will be installed around the week of March 22