cliffy Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just wondering how many of you with electric gear actually follow the MM and lube the actuator as called for in the MM or SB? Do you actually check to see that your A&P does it? How about changing the back spring at 1000 hrs? Working on an S model right now with 1300 hrs and the actuator has never been serviced. And the gear has been worked on several times and is way out of proper rig. The owner has trusted his mech for years but- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I do the lube and inspections on my Dukes actuator. It doesn't take all that long, and it is a good idea because if the gears fail, the emergency system won't work either. After a few years the grease dries out and forms a cavity around the gears. It is important that it is full of fresh grease. I usually don't add grease with a grease gun, I take it apart, clean out all the old grease, wash all the parts and hand pack it with fresh grease. My gear set has over 1000 hours and still show no signs of wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I too think it should be done but I wonder how many owners don't even know of the requirement and how many non Mooney A&Ps even think of doing it if they don't follow the MM for an annual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Cliffy-. I am intimately familiar with the servicing requirements of the old Dukes actuator, but other than the 1000 hour back spring on the new ones, what are the servicing requirements for the new actuators? I don't have access to the most modern Service Manuals. (Just curious, BTW. I don't do annuals on new Mooneys so I don't really need them.) Edited February 8, 2016 by N1395W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20S Driver Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I have 1100 hours on my 1999 M20S and will be servicing the Eaton gear actuator and installing a new no back spring by a Mooney MSC. Does anyone know the guidelines for replacing the clutch for manual extension as well as replacing the rope? Last thing I need is to try to extend manually in an emergency and have the clutch or rope fail!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdoyle Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Good question. I had an E model that I pulled, cleaned, and repacked every year instead of every two years. I now have a J model with a 40:1 gear. My IA said this model does not require the SB be done every two years. Anyone know for sure? Edited February 8, 2016 by ltdoyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 The Eaton actuator calls for a gear wear check at 500 hrs and then every 200 thereafter plus the regreasing of same. It's called out in the S model Maint Manual in the gear rigging section. It also calls for a new back sprong at 1000 hrs (they are available now from Mooney) but I have not seen any call to replace the "rope". The rope should still be inspected carefully however every annual. Both the Dukes and the ITT early actuators come under the SB 20-190B for gear drive inspection and lubrication Every 100 hrs requires that either actuator be regreased per section 2 of the SB Under "electric gear inspection " in the MM it specifies to remove the actuator and clean and check the gears for wear as per the MM. The only reason the "old" 20:1 gears failed and wore out was because no one did the required maintenance to clean and relube the gear case and jack screw. Here's the question- Do you really think that a gear actuator packed with gears and grease can operate flawlessly for 30-40 even 50 years without being cleaned, inspected and relubed? One would not want to attempt to replace the back spring without the complete MM instructions. It's a somewhat complicated procedure Suffice it to say the actuator comes out and gets disassembled cleaned inspected and parts replaced relubed and reinstalled. It's all in the MM. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Good to know. Like always, thanks Cliff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 1 hour ago, cliffy said: The only reason the "old" 20:1 gears failed and wore out was because no one did the required maintenance to clean and relube the gear case and jack screw. Anecdote: our 20:1 gears did eventually wear to the point they failed the 1/2-tooth backlash test. This despite dutifully servicing the actuator every other annual (always less than 200 hours) from 2004 to 2009. Can't tell from the logs how often if ever the actuator was serviced prior to 2004, though. I'm sure the gears were original equipment from 1976. I consider 33 years to be a pretty reasonable lifetime. We installed 40:1 gears in 2009 and have serviced the actuator every other annual since. In practice this works out to about 150 hours between servicings, which seems very reasonable. The 100-hour "part 2" action in SB-190B is not possible with our particular actuator, as it has no grease fitting. Our actuator is actually an ITT LA11C2114 rather than the LA11C2110 called out in the SB. Technically, neither the AD nor the SB applies to our particular aircraft, though we act as if it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 9 hours ago, Vance Harral said: Anecdote: our 20:1 gears did eventually wear to the point they failed the 1/2-tooth backlash test. 33 years....how many airframe hours? Would you hazard a guess on how many gear cycles? My 74 C (Dukes) has about 4200 hours and the gear wear check is still at about 1/4 tooth. However, I know nothing lasts forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Mooneymite said: 33 years....how many airframe hours? Would you hazard a guess on how many gear cycles? Only 2200 hours at time of replacement. No idea how many gear cycles over the whole lifetime, but I'd guess we did about 1 per hour in the ~400 hours we owned the airplane between 2004 and 2009 (we do a lot of 1-hour local flights). One note of interest: our airplane had a gear-up landing in 1991 (long before we bought it) with the gear partially extended. Hard to say if that put any excessive wear on the actuator gears. I'd think that would show up as acute damage to an individual tooth, which we never saw, but who knows... Sounds like your actuator is holding up better than ours did, happy for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 53 minutes ago, Vance Harral said: One note of interest: our airplane had a gear-up landing in 1991 (long before we bought it) with the gear partially extended. That's interesting. My airplane had a gear-up about the same time. It was also a partial-gear-extended event. I would have thought that your 76 F and my 74 C would have the same Dukes acutator, but I'm not sure why yours has no grease fitting. They must be different. Who did your 40:1 gears and what did they cost back in 2009? Do you have any recollection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I know a little bit about the gear-up in our airplane based on a letter the owner at the time sent to the FSDO, a copy of which came with the airplane records. It was quite the fiasco. They bought the airplane with no pre-buy, and it turned out to have numerous maintenance issues. The alternator failed in flight, but they didn't notice immediately, purportedly because the low-voltage warning circuit was inop. The figured out the battery was drained when the gear stopped halfway through the extension sequence. They tried to crank it down, but the spline engage cable was maladjusted and wouldn't engage the actuator pinion gear, so they had to land with the gear partially extended. No real airframe damage, but the prop was ruined and the engine had to be overhauled due to the prop strike breaking a connecting rod. Yuck. My parts manual lists both the ITT LA11C2114 and the Dukes actuator, the latter with Mooney P/N 950158-503. But there is note regarding the Dukes that says "actuator no longer available, use LA11C2114 actuator". My guess is the Dukes actuators were still available in 1974 when your airplane was built, but not in 1976 when ours was. We had our actuator overhauled by LASAR in 2009 (they managed the process, but the work was actually outsourced to George's Electrical Service). In addition to installing new 40:1 gears, we also had the motor overhauled with new brushes, bearings, seals, etc. Total cost was $2066.82. The 40:1 gear kit itself was $1064.57 (ouch). Labor was $940.90 and the remainder was shipping and nickel/dime parts. Edited February 9, 2016 by Vance Harral 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Thanks for the info. I'll try to keep fresh grease in my actuator! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdoyle Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Which brings to mind...what grease do you use. I was using Aeroshell 17, but understand Aeroshell 22 is the stuff to use now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 The SB specified the greases that can be used. I personally use the Aeroshell #7 and add in Molybdenum Disulfide which I bought on-line. The addition turns the grease black, so if the housing isn't filled with black grease, it might not be compliant. SB says: >>> In lubricating the actuator gear housing use only Dukes Astronautics Co.; special purpose grease P/N 2196-74-1, Aeroshell Grease # 7, or MIL-PRF-23827 (with a minimum of 10% (by vol.) Molybdenum Disulfide added to any of the grease used). <<< 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 LASAR will sell you a pre-mixed container of grease that includes the Moly Disulfide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, KSMooniac said: LASAR will sell you a pre-mixed container of grease that includes the Moly Disulfide. So will Walmart. Is the LASAR grease the one specified in the SB by P/N? There are lots of greases that contain the MD, but usually only 5%, not 10%. How does one know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Just now, Mooneymite said: So will Walmart. Is the LASAR grease the one specified in the SB by P/N? There are lots of greases that contain the MD, but usually only 5%, not 10%. How does one know? yes, LASAR uses the correct ingredients and ratio when mixing them together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Be careful with the moly grease! I got some on a pair of jeans once; three years later it was still there, visibly gray . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 My Dad used to (50 yrs ago) put a little dab of moly grease on each xmas light bulb outside in our yard. After a year or 2 we never lost another bulb to theft! :-) 5 hours ago, Mooneymite said: How does one know? Is it MIL-PRF-23827 compliant? Check the Wally World label to determine if it meets spec:-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 8 hours ago, KSMooniac said: yes, LASAR uses the correct ingredients and ratio when mixing them together. I use the lasar grease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I notice the Eaton actuator isn't mentioned, looking at the service instruction 901, it uses Aeroshell 22, no mention of Molybdenum Disulfide, I therefore assume all of the anove doesnt apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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