Restricted Air Space

[rainman]

I flew to Alamagordo NM on Saturday for lunch with a friend. I filed IFR from KALM to my home base at 5C1 near San Antonio on Sunday morning. When I called to pick up my clearance, I was told that restricted spaces R-5103C, R-5103B, and R-5103A were all "hot". I was vectored all the way south to El Paso in the narrow VFR corridor. I chose to remain IFR, but perhaps I could have cancelled, gone VFR, turned north, and returned to KALM then traversed the series of MOAs when I turned east toward Texas. This is the first time I've had to divert that far. What should I have done?

[kpaul]

There is a big difference between Restricted Areas and Military Operations Areas (MOA).  You can in fact fly VFR through an active MOA although I would caution you against doing that unless you understand the operations taking place in that airspace.  You have to avoid Restricted Areas unless you are specifically authorized to be within that airspace, hence the reason it's called "Restricted." 

And now I re-read your post, so the above is not really necessary.

Not knowing what you filed, I am not sure why you got the vector that far south since if you filed direct you would have avoided the 5103 ranges.  My guess had to do with the altitude you filed since the listed MSA to the east of ALM is 12,100'. 

[kortopates]

I can't follow what you were trying to do and got lost when you returned to your point of departure. Not sure what the alternative plan was but it couldn't be returning to your point of departure.

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[rainman]

I had filed direct and offered to climb to 13K once the vectoring south began so I could turn east. ABQ center had me continue south and transferred me to El Paso approach. By then, El Paso advised I stay on that path. Had I cancelled IFR and turned back north, I would have only traveled about 20 miles out of my way. As it turned out, by staying IFR, I was vectored almost 100 miles out of the way.  I picked up the clearance once I got airborn, and perhaps I could have gotten it all sorted out if I had called on the phone while on the ground? 

[N601RX]

I live inside the Ft Rucker MOA which also has a small restricted area.  I normally use Flight Following if going in that direction. I've found it best to talk to the local military controllers. They know exactly what is going on in it at any given time and will often let you pass straight through, while center may not have up to the minute info.  I've also had them refuse to allow me to drop flight following when in the MOA.  They simply said in a very stern voice "we need you to stay with us for a few more minutes."  

I also go into the Eglin area ocasionally on the weekend and found the military controllers there to be very accommodating when passing through their restricted areas. 

[kortopates]

Did you get cleared as filed or a whole different routing to the south? Were the vectors for the cleared route or a change from it?

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[Marauder]

I flew to Alamagordo NM on Saturday for lunch with a friend. I filed IFR from KALM to my home base at 5C1 near San Antonio on Sunday morning. When I called to pick up my clearance, I was told that restricted spaces R-5103C, R-5103B, and R-5103A were all "hot". I was vectored all the way south to El Paso in the narrow VFR corridor. I chose to remain IFR, but perhaps I could have cancelled, gone VFR, turned north, and returned to KALM then traversed the series of MOAs when I turned east toward Texas. This is the first time I've had to divert that far. What should I have done?

I looked at your flight path. I think it if you were able to do the climb gradient to clear the mountains to the east, I would have went VFR. I know you mountain fliers need to contend with the wind over the hills, so I think if the conditions were right, it would have been the easiest way to deal with the situation.

That route they sent you was quite a re-route!

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[rainman]

Paul, I filed direct but the clearance was for vectors to the south along the El Paso corridor while he sorted out the activity in the restricted areas.  By the time he sorted out the multiple restrictions he transferred me to El Paso. I had not penetrated the restricted area prior to my contact with center. The DP from KALM is for a very out of the way detour north to the Corona VOR so I didn't file or request that. This was my first experience with a hot restricted area and was perhaps too passive by staying IFR and accepting the long diversion. Once hot, the restricted area was not available IFR or VFR. My question is could I have cancelled IFR, gone VFR and returned north until I got past the restricted area, then headed east thru the MOA?

[kpaul]

9 minutes ago, rainman said:

My question is could I have cancelled IFR, gone VFR and returned north until I got past the restricted area, then headed east thru the MOA?

That should have not been a problem.  It would have been a little risky just because of the corridor you were in, but assuming you have GPS w/ moving map it would have been doable.  All of my flying in that area has been from Holloman AFB, even then it can be painful with all the restricted areas in that area. 

[Hank]

I deal with R-space and MOAs in North Carolina frequently. Many times they are cold, sometimes hot, and sometimes NITAMed "hit to the ground" despite charts that say they (R space) begins at 1500 agl. When these overly my destination, I get below 1500 and land anyway. Getting to KFAY from the NW requires avoiding R space, holding course at 4500 msl until about 10-12 nm from the field.

Traveling there IFR, my last diversion going to the coast was significant, but I listened in to two F15s headed back in to Seymour Johnson AFB. Not something I'd want to mess around with in-and-out of the clouds. YMMV, closed course, trained professionals, etc.

[carqwik]

They routed you through that narrow sliver of airspace IFR...?  Wow...that's amazing.  To answer your question, I'd have gone VFR if the MOAs were cold...

 

[Hector]

Slightly off topic, but last year I talked to one of the Foreflight guys about displaying the status of restricted areas and MOAs in Foreflight maps. If you have a stratus receiver it will display TFRs so why not do the same for restricted and MOAs? The FAA has a website that displays the current status of these and I would not think it would be that difficult to transmit that info via ADS-B as well. I was told they were working on it but the FAA had to play to make it happen since they control the information stream for ADS-b. Anyway, off topic but I always thought this would be a very nice update to Foreflight.

[kortopates]

15 hours ago, rainman said:

Paul, I filed direct but the clearance was for vectors to the south along the El Paso corridor while he sorted out the activity in the restricted areas.  By the time he sorted out the multiple restrictions he transferred me to El Paso. I had not penetrated the restricted area prior to my contact with center. The DP from KALM is for a very out of the way detour north to the Corona VOR so I didn't file or request that. This was my first experience with a hot restricted area and was perhaps too passive by staying IFR and accepting the long diversion. Once hot, the restricted area was not available IFR or VFR. My question is could I have cancelled IFR, gone VFR and returned north until I got past the restricted area, then headed east thru the MOA?

I am still wondering if you got your clearance on the ground by contacting Albuquerque Center  on the ground through the RCO or whether you departed VFR and contacted Holloman departure in the air. It makes a difference. But I am going to assume you departed VFR.

But actually lets begin with how you could have most likely gotten the direct routing you wanted IFR and although I haven't looked but I'd assume going direct is going to be over  lot of Class G airspace meaning you'd have to be at 15K (into the continental control airspace above 14.5K before you would be in controlled airspace the whole time, i.e. on O2). But not worrying about altitude for the moment, you most likely called Holloman departure (120.6)  too soon (or perhaps you called Albuquerque Center but unless Holloman was closed they were the controlling authority there). By doing that, you really gave them no choice but to vector you south. I don't think they would give you the Corona Departure unless you had filed over 14K, but you would only get it if you got your clearance on the ground - not in the air. But they could not possibly vector you east because of the terrain; (you couldn't climb fast enough to get above their MVA) and as a IFR traffic he really needed to get you away from the airport. So what would have been your best option was to depart VFR and not call them till you got much higher and east bound. My performance based flight planning s/w shows me that a direct on course climb would not clear the terrain even in my Turbo, so I would expect to do one big circle in the climb up to about 13K. I would have waited till I was above 10K and clearly east bound away from the airport (but still less than 10 miles from the airport). Then with terrain separation assured I would contact departure and they would most likely clear me direct/on course to PIO but not till after reaching some altitude such as 13K (depending on their MVA there). You are still not out of the woods for a direct flight plan though because of the Talon MOA that begins at 12.5K, you might be able to go under IFR at 11K but I am skeptical (it comes back to their MVA) and that is leaving too much to chance, so to further get more options  I would have included PIO in the flight plan which is right before the MOAs. If need be, you could  go south just a bit from PIO till clear of the Talon High and once at the Talon Low MOA you'd be able to get on course again since you'd be above it and probably home free at that point.

But the lesson here is never expect to get a direct route through restricted area, MOAs and high rising terrain without closely looking at your options and figuring out in advance what is going to work both for you and the controller. You have to really understand their limitations as well as just simple airspace limitations - as in no IFR in class G - so you may have to climb higher than you want when not on airways. Another consideration on long direct routes - if you find yourself going through multiple different centers its going to be problem too without putting in a fix at each FIR or Center boundary. Maybe their central computer s/w has finally gotten over that limitation, I don't know so I still try to adhere to get what I want.

Another side note on this, is I never wait to get my clearance to find out what my cleared route will be. Ever since Flightaware has been in operation its been possible to get your cleared route via an email from Flightaware as soon as its accepted. Many of the ipad apps do that for you too now. But its easy to set up if you are not yet aware.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by kortopates

[rainman]

Thanks Paul. I did pick up my clearance airborn, but right after I got off the ground. I had filed on flight plan.com and before I left it showed that my routing would be straight out 2 miles to the BWS VOR then direct to PIO which is right on the line for San Antonio. Obviously things changed, and had I circled above the airport to 13K before calling as suggested perhaps then he would have sent me straight to PIO. I appreciate the insights. Lesson learned.

[mpg]

Well,,  rainman;   I think I have learned a lot from this thread,, spent lots of time studying the route,

the check points and my charts..

I would say that filing and flying toward BWS was your downfall.

The advice from Kortopatos to circle for mountain clearing altitude then heading direct to your 1st fix at PIO

staying northerly of the restricted space till well on your way would have worked out in your favor.

But you did eventually get home OK,,,  near as I can tell,,,   so thats good.

I do gotta ask,,,  Going to Alamagordo,, did you fly VFR or file and fly IFR?

What route did you make then?

Would a simple reversal of that route have gotten you home just as well?

 

[irishpilot]

I fly both military (in MOA/Restricted Airpsace) and civilian so I understand the issue from both sides. I agree with previous posts about flying through MOAs VFR without talking to anyone. Are you legal to do so, yes. Is it smart, no. The best way to deal with active MOAs is to either skirt the outside of the airspace or go above/below it. If you absolutely cannot go around an active MOA, my recommendation is find the MOA frequency and make your intentions known. Some MOAs will be monitored by a ground controller on VHF and they can help you out. If not, still announce your intentions, but realize most military aircraft are on the UHF freq. I know it sucks when some of the MOAs out West are so large (especially when you are paying for the gas), but always try to talk to someone if the MOA is hot, that way controllers can give a pointout to the military aircraft and advise them to keep clear of you. You did the conservative thing by staying IFR.

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[rainman]

MPG, I flew IFR from 5C1 to KALM via PIO on Saturday. On Sunday I filed direct for the return trip but saw the proposed routing via BWS to PIO then 5C1 on flightplan.com prior to departure, so that's what I was planning, but was aware that things change. I prefer to do my cross counties IFR when possible to get practice in the system, and it makes traversing the numerous SUAs safer. It was a good learning experience for me in a unique airspace with that narrow corridor between Holloman AFB and the highway, and the MOAs and restricted areas. Thanks for all the insights.

[Bob - S50]

20 hours ago, irishpilot said:

 

I fly both military (in MOA/Restricted Airpsace) and civilian so I understand the issue from both sides. I agree with previous posts about flying through MOAs VFR without talking to anyone. Are you legal to do so, yes. Is it smart, no. The best way to deal with active MOAs is to either skirt the outside of the airspace or go above/below it. If you absolutely cannot go around an active MOA, my recommendation is find the MOA frequency and make your intentions known. Some MOAs will be monitored by a ground controller on VHF and they can help you out. If not, still announce your intentions, but realize most military aircraft are on the UHF freq. I know it sucks when some of the MOAs out West are so large (especially when you are paying for the gas), but always try to talk to someone if the MOA is hot, that way controllers can give a pointout to the military aircraft and advise them to keep clear of you. You did the conservative thing by staying IFR.

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Let me say amen to that and add one thing.  If you decide you are going to fly through an area with multiple MOAs side by side, and not over/under them, fly on the border between two of them.  While it is possible that one group may be using them both, ... most ... of the time the training will be confined to just one airspace, especially around training bases like Luke, Holloman, Columbus, Laughlin, Tyndall, etc.  If that is the case, most military aircraft will stay a couple miles from the border to avoid spilling out.  And it wouldn't hurt to say a prayer before you do.