Rear Seat Bottom Retention

[RLCarter]

Was reinstalling the rear bench seat bottom on my 65 E, the seat cushion has the pockets sewn in for the rods at the rear and on the part that covers the fron of the spar. When I removed the seat there was only one rod on the front so I purched another rod for the back but there are no hooks to attach it to nor does it look like the hooks where ever there(no holes) anyone have an idea of where the hooks attach as far as deminsions go, hooks are no issue to fab up but the location would be critical in keeping the seat bottom tight. One last thing are the rear hooks bolted, riveted or what, parts book shows different part numbers for the front and rear hooks. Any pictures and deminsions would be greatly appreciated.

[takair]

I'm almost sure they are riveted. Hate to ask, but are you sure they are not there?  The hooks are sheet metal and quite far back.  Mine has two rods in the back, because the luggage heat duct splits them.  This gives you an idea of how far back the hooks are. Almost behind the backrest.  They can be a real pain to get locked in.  Have often been tempted to just Velcro the cushion in place.

[takair]

Look at Alex's M20D (continuous thread) page 3.  He has a photo that shows the relative position of the hooks.  They might be screwed in, hard to tell...

[RLCarter]

Not sure velco would hold the tension on the springs, the rear hooks are missing, I had the seat back out as well and nothing, not even any holes or evidence they were there. There was a C on the field for a while and I helped him pull the rear seat out, it was a pain to hook the rear bar.

 

[RLCarter]

Rob,

thanks for the heads up on Alex's photo, that is what I was needing and should be able to get with in an1/8" or so which will work just fine

 

[Yetti]

My hooks are put in with #4 screws.  The same screws as the covers to the spar area.   I have the split removeable seat backs.   It is easier to put the seat backs in then the bottom cushion.   The seat belts make the two rod thing for the rear retention necessary.

 

 

[Yetti]

If you hook the rear first, then hook the front rod, not so bad to do.  Sitting on the seat compresses the spring

[RLCarter]

So you guys are saying the rear rod is actually 2 rods (left and right) splitting the center lap belt attach point?

[Marauder]

My hooks are put in with #4 screws.  The same screws as the covers to the spar area.   I have the split removeable seat backs.   It is easier to put the seat backs in then the bottom cushion.   The seat belts make the two rod thing for the rear retention necessary.

 

 

Did you happen to take any pictures of the seats being removed? I had mine out on my 75F years ago, but can't remember how they came out.

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[takair]

7 hours ago, RLCarter said:

So you guys are saying the rear rod is actually 2 rods (left and right) splitting the center lap belt attach point?

Yes, two rods.

[Yetti]

yep two rods.  I think the back clips line up with the outside edges of the covers.   just behind the last row.    Not sure the back clips are that necessary for it all to work.   Some how when I sewed my seat up it was a bit long so the rear is not clipped.

[RLCarter]

Yetti, 

On mine with the clips missing the seat cushion migrates forward and up, making it look like the cushion is over stuffed. Headed out to the hangar this morning to see if I can turn a 20 minute job into an all day project. 

[Marauder]

Yetti, 

On mine with the clips missing the seat cushion migrates forward and up, making it look like the cushion is over stuffed. Headed out to the hangar this morning to see if I can turn a 20 minute job into an all day project. 

Take some photos to help us out!

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[HRM]

16 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Was reinstalling the rear bench seat bottom on my 65 E, the seat cushion has the pockets sewn in for the rods at the rear and on the part that covers the fron of the spar. When I removed the seat there was only one rod on the front so I purched another rod for the back but there are no hooks to attach it to nor does it look like the hooks where ever there(no holes) anyone have an idea of where the hooks attach as far as deminsions go, hooks are no issue to fab up but the location would be critical in keeping the seat bottom tight. One last thing are the rear hooks bolted, riveted or what, parts book shows different part numbers for the front and rear hooks. Any pictures and deminsions would be greatly appreciated.

Colossal PITA to R&R the rear seat.

The hooks are way back under there (the better to remove your skin, cause lacerations, require tetanus shots, etc.).

If you fail to find them by <cautiously> feeling around, then just live with it. If you think the bottom is a PITA you have experienced nothing until you pull the back off.

[Yetti]

pictures at 11:00

[Yetti]

If you have the strip of carpeted card board between the seats and the baggage compartment they are under there

 

 

And how long are the rear rods?

 

And who's fault is it that I did plane things without getting to fly?   Grumble

Also found that the bottom of the new seat that I sewed is an inch longer than the original.  Time to stitch in a new seam.

 

[HRM]

 

I know these clips from hell well...tarnishes the super-ness of my baby.

[Cyril Gibb]

Perhaps Clarence can attach a picture of the tool he has to install the bars in the clips.... took me about 30 seconds to reinstall the seat cushion..  Really!

Mind you, he let me suffer attempting the install without the tool for about half an hour.   (I'm sure it wasn't deliberate).... I think

 

[takair]

They are a pain.  I slide my hand under the cushion and push the rod hoping it catches.  Usuall does.  With the new foams, I have removed the spring.  I never really understood what it did, except to make the rear seat look fluffy with the old foam.  I suspect that if you remove the spring, Velcro would do an equal job of keeping the cushion in place.  This seams to be somewhat common on other seat situations.  Legal opinions may vary, but I can't see that hook mechanism doing more.

[blaine beaven]

Mine has two rods in the back, because the luggage heat duct splits them.  

You have heat in your luggage area? Is that only on a specific model?

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[Marauder]

If you have the strip of carpeted card board between the seats and the baggage compartment they are under there

 

 

And how long are the rear rods?

 

And who's fault is it that I did plane things without getting to fly?   Grumble

Also found that the bottom of the new seat that I sewed is an inch longer than the original.  Time to stitch in a new seam.

 

Thanks for posting these. It is 11:00 pm on the east coast where I'm at. You are a man of your word

I am going hunting this weekend to see if I can find these rods and to remove the seat. If I remember correctly, I thought I could take the reclining tops off as well. It has been such a long time since I had them out. But I know my mechanic has had them out at my request to check the spar underneath over the years. Now that he is retired, I've to figure it out with your help or send in the MSC.

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[Hank]

The seat back in my C is a PITA to install, much worse than the bottom. But it's factory split reclining. Too, which doesn't help matters.

Good luck!

[Yetti]

The reclining tops spring pins are on the outside pivot point. There is an L spring loaded rod that you pull.  Then move the top to the inside and the inside pivot point will let go.  The earlier comment about backs in first before seat bottom I don't think will work.   The seat belt on the outside has to go over the spring loaded pin.   Going straight down seemed to work best to get them in.  Along with a flash light.  It is not easy.

[RLCarter]

HRM PITA is correct, I have had all the interior out on a low budget redo so to speak. Yetti it seems I'm really lucky that you have yours out for a redo as well, can’t thank you enough for all the photos you have posted, my only concern is on the rod lengths photo, that isn’t a blood smear is it? I got out to the hangar around 10 this morning and went by my IA’s hangar to see if he had something to use as clips based on the photo of Alex’s D/C, ended up spending the all day giving him a hand on rigging and swinging the gear on an old Beech 18 he is resurrecting. I want to thank all of you for your help and photos on this. Cyril or Clarence I think everyone here would be interested in the miracle tool for installation….I'll be back out at the hangar in the morning and get this knocked out.

Edited February 2, 2016 by RLCarter

[Yetti]

One of the seat backs was not put in correctly.  Yes redid all of the interior in leather and new carpet for $750 and a $70.00 sewing machine and 4 needles.