Cirrus Down Jan 8 2016

[M20S Driver]

2 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

Tom, time to pull the chute on this thread!

Or fly LOP and crash land, gear up,  at the minimum controllable airspeed, into the winds, next to the lady with the failed parachute   

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

What the heck. Chutes can fail.

 

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Was your woman OK after her parachute ride?

Clarence

[Marauder]

3 hours ago, Marauder said: What the heck. Chutes can fail.

 

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Was your woman OK after her parachute ride?

Clarence

She was. But that poor fish she landed on never had a chance.

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[MyNameIsNobody]

7 hours ago, Shadrach said:

While that may be true, it rarely happens without some feathers flying! 

I was looking at an old thread from 2011 (IIRC) where I had some interesting exchanges with your alter ego. I'm glad your still here saying what you think!

Tom is most tenacious, he should change his screen nam to "Last Word"...because I'm pretty sure he always gets it!

Tommy gives me a pseudo face-Palm from a fictitious star fleet captain...I got a real deal one from a former Brigidier General/Mr. Right Stuff himself Chuck "Got a stick of Beaman's" Yeager...I was the fictitious captain then.  Luftwaffe Hauptmann (flight gear) re-enacting at Oshkosh years ago.  Yeager had not much love for any "enemy" wearing German flight kit.

Ross, you were probably right then, as you are now...or not.  Either way tenacity is a fine trait.  This may be a long thread...

[MyNameIsNobody]

4 hours ago, Marauder said:

What the heck. Chutes can fail.

 

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Technically I think the rider failed more than the chute...and the harness.  That is a face plant vs. my face palm...

 

 

[aviatoreb]

Owe - that lady could have broken her neck.

[MyNameIsNobody]

51 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Owe - that lady could have broken her neck.

Twice.  Ouch....OUCH!

[DXB]

I don't really want to re-open the "friendly" and spirited debate here, but I couldn't pass  up sharing this extreme example from yesteryear of an aircraft maker encouraging pilots to use technology that might add to safety and instead behave like a jackass:

The Don Draper-esque fella in the left seat clearly embraces his freedom from responsibility provided by Piper Autocontrol. A cocktail in his hand would have perfected the ad.  

[cliffy]

Maybe their seat belts are off so they can take a stroll around the spacious cabin!

[kmyfm20s]

2 hours ago, DXB said:

I don't really want to re-open the "friendly" and spirited debate here, but I couldn't pass  up sharing this extreme example from yesteryear of an aircraft maker encouraging pilots to use technology that might add to safety to instead behave like a jackass:

The Don Draper-esque fella in the left seat clearly embraces his freedom from responsibility provided by Piper Autocontrol. A cocktail in his hand would have perfected the ad.  

That very well could be Clarence's plane in that add, all that room and 8 pistons pulling you along! That's back in the day of cocktails, cigarettes and cheap gas. The golden era of aviation:)

[Marauder]

These indeed were the parents of "the children of the magneta line".

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[bonal]

So you have M20Doc and Mrs.M20Doc but who's the guy in the back and where is the flight attendant serving up them cocktails

[CaptainAB]

My wife would love that ad. When someone is surprised to hear I fly or that I flew the family somewhere, she is usually quick to point out that all I did was "push a few buttons"

[Guest]

2 hours ago, bonal said:

So you have M20Doc and Mrs.M20Doc but who's the guy in the back and where is the flight attendant serving up them cocktails

That's us.  The fellow in the back is the flight engineer reading up on operation of the 400HP IO720 pulling us along at better than 190KTAS, and he's checking for correct weight and balance of that huge 1490 pound useful load.

Clarence

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, bonal said: So you have M20Doc and Mrs.M20Doc but who's the guy in the back and where is the flight attendant serving up them cocktails

That's us.  The fellow in the back is the flight engineer reading up on operation of the 400HP IO720 pulling us along at better than 190KTAS, and he's checking for correct weight and balance of that huge 1490 pound useful load.

Clarence

Oh, I thought the guy in the back was reading over the fuel bill.

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[aviatoreb]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Oh, I thought the guy in the back was reading over the fuel bill.

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20gal per hour - no problem!

http://www.1960sflashback.com/1960/economy.asp

1960   Economy / Prices   

Economy

President:	Dwight D. Eisenhower
Vice President:	Richard M. Nixon
Population:	180,671,158
Life expectancy:	69.7 years
Dow-Jones
High:	685
Low:	566
Federal spending:	$92.19 billion
Federal debt:	$290.5 billion
Inflation:	1.4%
Consumer Price Index:	29.6
Unemployment:	5.5%

 

Prices

Cost of a new home:	$16,500.00
Cost of a new car:	$
Cost of a first-class stamp:	$0.04
Cost of a gallon of regular gas:	$0.31
Cost of a dozen eggs:	$0.57
Cost of a gallon of Milk:	$0.49

[kmyfm20s]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

That's us.  The fellow in the back is the flight engineer reading up on operation of the 400HP IO720 pulling us along at better than 190KTAS, and he's checking for correct weight and balance of that huge 1490 pound useful load.

Clarence

Flight engineer, code for bootlegger! Checking weight and balance after dropping off a load of Canadian Whiskey:) I estimate about 790lbs of it. I see he is also auditing the the receipt book and appears to be in disbelief with the volume of fuel consumed even ar the low cost of $0.31/gal.

[kmyfm20s]

BTW you and the wife are a great looking couple!

[Ned Gravel]

19 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

That very well could be Clarence's plane in that add, all that room and 8 pistons pulling you along! That's back in the day of cocktails, cigarettes and cheap gas. The golden era of aviation:)

Naw.  I have flown in his Commanche (he will often fly an owner who has dropped off their aircraft) but it is not that big in his cabin.  Somewhat more space than my E model, but not as much as the dreamworld of the add.

[steingar]

On January 22, 2016 at 2:52 AM, Tom said:

I You better get it right when performing an off-airport landing in a high-performance plane.   Most of us are introduced to off-airport landings in trainers that can nearly be flown into the side of a building at stall speed with some survivability hope.  Some of us seem to carry that mindset into faster aircraft. 

Don't quite get this.  My Mooney stalls dirty at 57mph, which is nearly identical to the published stall stall speed of my Cherokee.  So why is the high performance plane so much more dangerous in a forced landing?  Admittedly, there's more to do (gotta lower the gear and feather the prop in addition to lowering the flaps, which I would have had to do in the Cherokee in an emergency).  But I still don't see the big whip.  And I think he Mooney quite a bit safer since it glides pretty well, unlike my Cherokee that would drop like a stone without power.

If you really want to improve your crash survivability in a Mooney invest in vortex generators.  They aren't even that expensive, they'll lower your stall speed  good bit and make your airplane far more controllable into the stall, all without slowing you down.

[Shadrach]

55 minutes ago, steingar said:

Don't quite get this.  My Mooney stalls dirty at 57mph, which is nearly identical to the published stall stall speed of my Cherokee.  So why is the high performance plane so much more dangerous in a forced landing?  Admittedly, there's more to do (gotta lower the gear and feather the prop in addition to lowering the flaps, which I would have had to do in the Cherokee in an emergency).  But I still don't see the big whip.  And I think he Mooney quite a bit safer since it glides pretty well, unlike my Cherokee that would drop like a stone without power.

If you really want to improve your crash survivability in a Mooney invest in vortex generators.  They aren't even that expensive, they'll lower your stall speed  good bit and make your airplane far more controllable into the stall, all without slowing you down.

You are correct about the stall speed of your C vs a Cherokee. In fact, for a given weight, I'm pretty sure your bird will fly slower than a Cherokee. It's a glider compared to the piper. The issue is that people don't fly them slow. I know I come off like an airspeed evangelist, but the fact is you even see the pros recommending significantly more speed than is needed. A lot of Mooney pilots never Become comfortable flying them slow...ever.   With shoulder harnesses a horizontal impact at <60mph is very survivable, unless you hit a wall.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Shadrach

[aviatoreb]

55 minutes ago, steingar said:

Don't quite get this.  My Mooney stalls dirty at 57mph, which is nearly identical to the published stall stall speed of my Cherokee.  So why is the high performance plane so much more dangerous in a forced landing?  Admittedly, there's more to do (gotta lower the gear and feather the prop in addition to lowering the flaps, which I would have had to do in the Cherokee in an emergency).  But I still don't see the big whip.  And I think he Mooney quite a bit safer since it glides pretty well, unlike my Cherokee that would drop like a stone without power.

If you really want to improve your crash survivability in a Mooney invest in vortex generators.  They aren't even that expensive, they'll lower your stall speed  good bit and make your airplane far more controllable into the stall, all without slowing you down.

I am a believer in gear up - if I ever need to make a forced landing on a highly unimproved surface, or water, then better to land on a smooth belly than with gear down which may cause you to flip.  This is controversial though since some will say that gear down allows for them to maybe rip away which is absorbing energy.

I added vortex generators to my airplane for exactly the reason you said.

[DXB]

21 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

You are correct about the stall speed of your C vs a Cherokee. In fact, for a given weight, I'm pretty sure your bird will fly slower than a Cherokee. It's a glider compared to the piper. The issue is that people don't fly them slow. I know come off like an airspeed evangelist, but the fact is you even see the pros recommending significantly more speed than is needed. A lot of Mooney pilots never Become comfortable flying them slow...ever.   With shoulder harnesses a horizontal impact at <60mph is very survivable, unless you hit a wall.

True - and one practices for that forced landing with every single normal landing - little hope with engine out if you can't do it perfect on a good day. I suspect I need to get my IAS at touchdown lowered by 3-5mph.  Even though most of my landings feel  comfortable and well under control, I probably hear the stall horn at touchdown only 1/5 of the time.

[Shadrach]

4 minutes ago, DXB said:

True - and one practices for that forced landing with every single normal landing - little hope with engine out if you can't do it perfect on a good day. I suspect I need to get my IAS at touchdown lowered by 3-5mph.  Even though most of my landings feel  comfortable and well under control, I probably hear the stall horn at touchdown only 1/5 of the time.

Yes and as you've seen first hand, being fast in the pattern need not translate to being fast over the numbers...

[DXB]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

I am a believer in gear up - if I ever need to make a forced landing on a highly unimproved surface, or water, then better to land on a smooth belly than with gear down which may cause you to flip.  This is controversial though since some will say that gear down allows for them to maybe rip away which is absorbing energy.

I added vortex generators to my airplane for exactly the reason you said.

Seems like gear up for water makes a ton of sense- I think fixed gear planes just about always flip on water (?) making getting hurt or trapped much more likely.  Same for deep snow or very rough terrain.  Tougher judgement call may be a friendlier-looking field that is still too rough to serve as a grass strip.   Also having no experience landing gear up (thankfully), I wonder how the feel and performance in the flare will differ.  Lastly I'm not used to managing speed on base/final with the gear up- this would seem a disadvantage in an emergency.