My engine is talking to me - And I'm finally listening

[DaV8or]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

LOL! I even think the newer technology (experimental) guys are still struggling with "modern" technology. The RV guy down a couple of hangars from me had his cowling and prop off of his Toyota engine more times this year than I have in the last 10 years.

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I would love to see the demise of all internal combustion engines and have them relegated to museums and enthusiasts like steam engines are now. Not realistic for now though... 

The experimental guys have a tough time of it because they are amateurs trying to engineer an adaptation of an engine that was never designed, or intended to be in an airplane. It's a tough and risky project. What should have happened over the decades that never did, is an all new dedicated airplane engine designs should have happened that reflect the advances seen in cars, motorcycles, trucks and boats over the years. With regards to valves, cylinder life and crack prevention, I believe the semi liquid cooling approach that the Austro engine employs is the way to go. Oil cooling combined with a small liquid cooling radiator as well as modern casting design and manufacturing.

Back to the discussion of the constant threat of rotten valves...

[chrisk]

3 hours ago, DaV8or said:

I would love to see the demise of all internal combustion engines and have them relegated to museums and enthusiasts like steam engines are now. Not realistic for now though... 

The experimental guys have a tough time of it because they are amateurs trying to engineer an adaptation of an engine that was never designed, or intended to be in an airplane. It's a tough and risky project. What should have happened over the decades that never did, is an all new dedicated airplane engine designs should have happened that reflect the advances seen in cars, motorcycles, trucks and boats over the years. With regards to valves, cylinder life and crack prevention, I believe the semi liquid cooling approach that the Austro engine employs is the way to go. Oil cooling combined with a small liquid cooling radiator as well as modern casting design and manufacturing.

Back to the discussion of the constant threat of rotten valves...

There is plenty of design work like this going on.  The Rotax 914, and D-motor come to mind

 

[aviatoreb]

6 hours ago, DaV8or said:

Christ! I for one can't wait to get better batteries and electric motors in our planes. I hope I live long enough. This finicky, unreliable steam engine tech from the 19th century really grates on me sometimes. Particularly because our lives depend on it.

Anyhow, rant and thread drift over. Continue as you were. 

Actually - you ever play with high powered electric RC cars or electric RC airplanes?  The ones with super high power density and brushless motors - rc cars that go 70mph and comparable airplanes and helicopters.  I had several with my boys over the years.  They were forever blowing out their voltage regulators, their motors, their batteries.  They had a pretty high failure rate.  I am not convinced an electric airplane will be more reliable than a piston airplane, just different with new failure modes.  Maybe they can engineer it with better reliability than the toys - I don't know.

[kortopates]

13 hours ago, Yetti said:

So Burnt valve would be a valve sticking open?  Letting the hot compression gases escape?   So would maybe also be a sticking valve?

Not sticking open, but not rotating as they open and close causing hot spots. Valves are designed to rotate as they open and close to avoid developing hot spots.

[DaV8or]

5 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Actually - you ever play with high powered electric RC cars or electric RC airplanes?  The ones with super high power density and brushless motors - rc cars that go 70mph and comparable airplanes and helicopters.  I had several with my boys over the years.  They were forever blowing out their voltage regulators, their motors, their batteries.  They had a pretty high failure rate.  I am not convinced an electric airplane will be more reliable than a piston airplane, just different with new failure modes.  Maybe they can engineer it with better reliability than the toys - I don't know.

I have not, but my brother has. From what I have seen, the batteries go because they are usually cutting edge battery technology made as cheaply as possible. People into R/C cars tend to want go as fast as possible... but at a reasonable cost. So the battery makers choose the latest technology made by the lowest bidder in China. The results are predictable. Fast cars that sometimes catch fire. The motors and controllers suffer the same fate. Affordability is key in a hobby, many times more important than reliability. Add in the fact that people want spectacular performance and you get people pairing motors, controllers and batteries that never should be used to gather in the interest in performance.

I am 100% certain that the full sized vehicles will do many times better than the scale vehicles ever will. Also I will point out that very few, if any R/C car folks that use electric propulsion switch to gas powered due to reliability issues.

Trust me, the electric airplane will be unbelievably awesome once the major bugs and set backs get worked out in the car fleet. 

[Awful_Charlie]

21 hours ago, DaV8or said:

Christ! I for one can't wait to get better batteries and electric motors in our planes. I hope I live long enough. This finicky, unreliable steam engine tech from the 19th century really grates on me sometimes. Particularly because our lives depend on it.

Anyhow, rant and thread drift over. Continue as you were. 

You mean you've got one of these

 

[bonal]

That steam engine was cool I like the reverse feature just back it into the hangar. Steam is still one of the most efficient ways to convert heat energy into mechanical. That was a fun video to watch.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Awful_Charlie said:

You mean you've got one of these

 

Cool!

[aviatoreb]

9 hours ago, DaV8or said:

I have not, but my brother has. From what I have seen, the batteries go because they are usually cutting edge battery technology made as cheaply as possible. People into R/C cars tend to want go as fast as possible... but at a reasonable cost. So the battery makers choose the latest technology made by the lowest bidder in China. The results are predictable. Fast cars that sometimes catch fire. The motors and controllers suffer the same fate. Affordability is key in a hobby, many times more important than reliability. Add in the fact that people want spectacular performance and you get people pairing motors, controllers and batteries that never should be used to gather in the interest in performance.

I am 100% certain that the full sized vehicles will do many times better than the scale vehicles ever will. Also I will point out that very few, if any R/C car folks that use electric propulsion switch to gas powered due to reliability issues.

Trust me, the electric airplane will be unbelievably awesome once the major bugs and set backs get worked out in the car fleet. 

Like this?

https://www.rt.com/news/327752-tesla-electric-car-fire/

I have read that there have been a lot of Tesla cars spontaneously catching fire and disappearing in a fiery ball.

[DaV8or]

3 hours ago, Awful_Charlie said:

You mean you've got one of these

 

Basically, except my reversing gear is broken. Deferred to annual.

[DaV8or]

3 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Like this?

https://www.rt.com/news/327752-tesla-electric-car-fire/

I have read that there have been a lot of Tesla cars spontaneously catching fire and disappearing in a fiery ball.

The Li Ion batteries we see today in Teslas, computers, phones, power tools and R/C models, is not the energy storage device that will be used in the aircraft of tomorrow that I'm talking about. Everyone seems to assume it will be a battery of some sort with all the pitfalls of the batteries we have ever known, but it may well be a fuel cell, or maybe even they will finally be able to make a working super capacitor. I don't know, I just know it's coming and I want one.

In either case, the Tesla proves my point. The Tesla Model S uses very large batteries that hold a lot of energy. Millions of miles have been reliably driven using them. R/C car batteries fail all the time and don't even come close to the reliability, or longevity of the Tesla batteries. 

There have been some Tesla failures for sure, but they are far and few in-between and only come to our attention due to the fact that the news media finds a Tesla fire news worthy. Kind of like airplane crashes. The media points out every single crash and so GA airplanes get the reputation as death traps. The media reports every single Tesla fire and so now some people are going "Ah ha!! Told you they were dangerous!" The real truth is, they are the safest car on the road bar none. No one has ever died as of the result of a Tesla fire.

[aviatoreb]

58 minutes ago, DaV8or said:

The Li Ion batteries we see today in Teslas, computers, phones, power tools and R/C models, is not the energy storage device that will be used in the aircraft of tomorrow that I'm talking about. Everyone seems to assume it will be a battery of some sort with all the pitfalls of the batteries we have ever known, but it may well be a fuel cell, or maybe even they will finally be able to make a working super capacitor. I don't know, I just know it's coming and I want one.

In either case, the Tesla proves my point. The Tesla Model S uses very large batteries that hold a lot of energy. Millions of miles have been reliably driven using them. R/C car batteries fail all the time and don't even come close to the reliability, or longevity of the Tesla batteries. 

There have been some Tesla failures for sure, but they are far and few in-between and only come to our attention due to the fact that the news media finds a Tesla fire news worthy. Kind of like airplane crashes. The media points out every single crash and so GA airplanes get the reputation as death traps. The media reports every single Tesla fire and so now some people are going "Ah ha!! Told you they were dangerous!" The real truth is, they are the safest car on the road bar none. No one has ever died as of the result of a Tesla fire.

People would die quickly if a fire like that happened in an airplane since it goes from small fire to complete fire very fast.

The Tesla and other Li batteries do point out that caution and good engineering are always important.

I agree that far and away most Tesla's are awesome.

I actually agree completely with you - that likely someday airplanes will be electric powered and I want one.

[carusoam]

+1 for the steam tech video...

surprised it wasn't a turbine in place of the two piston set-up.

Hover board electric system fires are all the rage this holiday season...

I like the bank of portable news video cameras of the day.  Hand crank powered, no two operated at the same speed, but they get played back the same...

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

This thread has taken a bit of a turn, electric vehicles are likely going to be in our future which is fine. For me personally I LOVE internal combustion but it's more of a personal reaction to what is taking place and the shear force that is converted into motion. How each engine has its own character and sound. From the smallest 2 strokes to massive diesels. Think of a modern F1 (pre turbo) that can rev to almost 20,000 rpm that's oscillating over 360 times per second, amazing. Electric motors can do amazing things but are very sterile and quite frankly kind of boring. 

[carusoam]

battery+controller+motor = Complete technical system 

The coolest thing about an electric motor is....

Similar to the steam engine, the gobs of torque available from 0 rpm up to full rpm.

not really super helpful in aviation, but lots of fun in the Tesla at the 1/4 mile strip!

The hover board is looking kinda interesting for post flying transportation.  Only available in electric format....

the guys operating the hand powered camera all wished they had a nicer speed controller for their movie camera.

one one thousand, two one thousand, three one........

180° turn...

if the hover board could get a CGR or JPI 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[DaV8or]

1 hour ago, bonal said:

This thread has taken a bit of a turn, electric vehicles are likely going to be in our future which is fine. For me personally I LOVE internal combustion but it's more of a personal reaction to what is taking place and the shear force that is converted into motion. How each engine has its own character and sound. From the smallest 2 strokes to massive diesels. Think of a modern F1 (pre turbo) that can rev to almost 20,000 rpm that's oscillating over 360 times per second, amazing. Electric motors can do amazing things but are very sterile and quite frankly kind of boring. 

That's the thing, there is room in the world for both. ICE enthusiasts will still build, restore and maintain vehicles, including airplanes with ICEs in them, just as folks work with steam engines and rotary (the original, not Wankle) type engines. The difference will be that their daily driver/flyer will be electric.

[bonal]

As long as the idiot politicians don't take away our freedom to choose.  Try finding a hundred watt incandescent bulb like them or not there no longer on most stores shelves 

[gsengle]

Better to have taxed them out of existence by having them reflect their real cost in foreign wars for oil seriously getting off Middle East oil is an EXCELLENT investment... Free markets work best when real costs are reflected in products!

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[Ratherbflying]

Wow... this was such a good topic... before it got hijacked.

[bonal]

7 minutes ago, Ratherbflying said:

Wow... this was such a good topic... before it got hijacked.

Lots of good threads get hijacked the key is to take it back to a good place