How complete should log books be?

[Trailboss]

I'm looking at the log books for a lat(er) model J and something is amiss.  In the engine logbook, there are consistent annual inspections with 200-300 hours put on the engine in each year.  However, there are no other entries between the annuals...no oil changes, no "oh fixed a little item here", nothing...

Either this is the best running IO360 that has never had a hiccup, or there are missing entries.

If you were looking at the airplane for your own, would you a.) Run away!, b.) Pre-buy the snot out of it, perhaps including some engine dis-assembly?, c.) Other.

I'm not emotionally invested into any of it...still looking to buy my 'first airplane last'.

[M20F]

I would ask seller for clarification first and go from there.   Talking costs nothing. 

[carusoam]

Most of the entries are probably found in the airframe logs at annual.  Engine and Prop logs have little data to put in, ordinarily...

With that high of hours per year, there should be a few oil changes in the year that need to be logged somewhere...

I'm just a PP, logs are not my specialty...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

As a newbie owner, I put a couple of oil changes in the Airframe logbook . . .    Check to see what's there, too. Very little goes into my Prop logbook other than annuals.

[Yetti]

Check the AD log and then run one for the plane/engine and see if they match up.  The Mooney 100 hour check list has a bunch more information than the "performed annual IAW moony annual inspection"  entry

 

In my case it was "replaced oil pump gears".  Sadly there were 3 various versions of oil pump gears Lycomig was trying out the same time the engine was being rebuilt...

[carusoam]

Swapping out the aluminum gear in the oil's gear pump happened about Y2K.  That would be worthy of showing up in the engine log.

To answer the original question...

The logs should be very complete. Everything that was done by a mechanic should be in them somewhere. Some things done by a PP should be in them as well. Pitot static checks and oil changes.

Some things get logged separately like checking VORs may be in a notebook in place of the logs.

-a-

[Trailboss]

37 minutes ago, Hank said:

As a newbie owner, I put a couple of oil changes in the Airframe logbook . . .    Check to see what's there, too. Very little goes into my Prop logbook other than annuals.

Looking thru the airframe logs also shows very little as well, and still no reference to oil changes.  Prop logs I understand being thin...

[goterminal120]

There is nothing in the F.A.R.s that states when or evan if the oil has to be changed. The manufacturer gives a time they think it should be done, but no rule of enforcment. That being said,without logging it how would you know when the next one is due, unless it is kept up with in some other way. 

[Andy95W]

I've worked with owners who did their own oil changes but didn't realize they were supposed to log it in their books.  Most would say "I'm not an A&P, I'm not allowed to write in those books."  Even after showing them the regs (FAR 43) some still wouldn't feel comfortable logging it.

As for the missing oil changes, they were probably done at some indeterminate interval.  I'll quote Dirty Harry: "Do you feel lucky?"

[grami-air]

I would take the plane to a Mooney Service Center and perform a very thorough pre-buy.  The MSC will provide you a complete list of squawks that you might be able to use in the negotiation process.  I would also ask the seller for the name and phone number of the mechanic(s) or service centers who serviced this particular J within the last 10 years; service centers and aircraft shops all maintain records.  Any hesitation to provide this info should raise a flag.  If the seller says he did all the oil changes but did not log them, I would ask for an immediate oil change with an oil analysis.  I went through this very same issue when buying my '79K.  If you would like to learn more of what I went thru including locating all the 337 forms and how I resolved these issues send me a personal message.

[Guest]

Sadly with many log books there are screwed up and missing entries.  Mechanics and owners seem to be alergic to writing details, it doesn't help the FAA log books are little more than note pads.

I doubt the airplane could have flown hundreds of hours with no maintenance, perhaps the owner has invoices to prove details of work completed?

Clarence

[MyNameIsNobody]

I would NOT want to own that plane.

[INA201]

I bought my plane with receipts for items that were installed but no logbook entry but it all matched up for the most part. Hypothetically, what if logbooks were destroyed and you did a thorough annual/prebuy and had everything up to date are you covered?  Can you be legal starting from scratch?

[ArtVandelay]

200-300 hours a year? How many hours on the engine? I would at least price it as a runout.

[Trailboss]

12 hours ago, teejayevans said:

200-300 hours a year? How many hours on the engine? I would at least price it as a runout.

~1200 on the engine, overhauled in 2007.  It Me thinks I'm going to pass on this one.  Besides this issue, it is not close to me geographically and there are others closer that can be physically looked at.