aviatoreb Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/September/23/New-policy-makes-upgrading-attitude-indicators-easier So can I bend this new interpretation so as to allow me to install the Garmin G3X as my electric backup? http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/g3x-touch/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 So many MS members running to the site.... It is taking several minutes to gain access. i'll have to come back. best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 That is a good start...hopefully it will be expanded soon to include products like the G3X or Dynon or . . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 That should reduce the cost of installing the new Bendix/King/Honeywell electric AI. I wonder if the LifeSaver would qualify? Good trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) How long ago did Craig lead the charge with his all digital M20J? The FAA is moving faster every day... AOPA is delivering the information better every day... MS is deciphering this information for the Mooney world faster and more efficiently every day... Go modernization! -a- Edited September 24, 2015 by carusoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Later this year I'm replacing my backup attitude indicator with the Sandia Quattro. For primary I have the Aspen PFD and because I opted for the EA100 digital to analog autopilot converter my AP gets all the attitude input from the Aspen. When the Sandia goes in I'm removing the vacuum pump and precise flight vacuum backup. I will pick up a little useful load and be all electric. http://sandia.aero/product/sai-340-quattro/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 I am also hoping to see the Sandia 340 Quattro also approved, but it is still pending TSO approval and has been for sometime. I don't see the policy change making it permissible to install a non-TSO'd electronic backup instrument though. Its just making it easier as a minor mod in some cases, yet the same requirements rules apply and some of the PFD manufactures (e.g., Garmin, Aspen) still may have their own specific requirements for backup instruments as a part of their STC which will need to be taken into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch0537 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 This is great. I've already removed my KI-256 and replaced it with the Mid-Continent SAM. I've removed my vacuum system. Now, if enough Mooney owners push B&C to expand their stand-by alternators to fit in place of the vacuum pump maybe they will. They are currently available for most Bonanza's and Cessna 182, 206, 210. So how about it guys, put some pressure on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 DG is still vacuum driven and I have no plan ($$$$) to upgrade to an Aspen ( would be the only option to drive the CIIB Autopilot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 This is great. I've already removed my KI-256 and replaced it with the Mid-Continent SAM. I've removed my vacuum system. Now, if enough Mooney owners push B&C to expand their stand-by alternators to fit in place of the vacuum pump maybe they will. They are currently available for most Bonanza's and Cessna 182, 206, 210. So how about it guys, put some pressure on them. What unit are you talking about - can you link me to a instrument description? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Standby Attitude Module? https://www.flysam.com The name of the device sounds like it is a back-up to a 'primary' device. Or did I miss something? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) http://www.bandc.biz/standbyalternatorandcontrollerforcessna210stc-pma.aspx Standby alrernator installed on vaccum pump pad. Has been installed in the J. Edited September 25, 2015 by PTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 My E now has only 2 vacuum dependent devices, the AI which is BU to an Aspen, and the retracting step. If the AI became electric is there a cost effective way to modify the step retract mechanism to get rid of the vacuum pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) BB, 1) Consider the aerodynamic fixed step that is on the O... 2) Fly at high altitudes where air density/viscosities are lower. 3) Rob/Takair has an STC for a linear actuator that he is using for auto-mixture control. May need some changes to make it useable... 4) Get a used back-up vacuum system, mount it in the tail to operate the step... (A whole bunch of half ideas that came to mind) Best regards, -a- Edited September 25, 2015 by carusoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 My E now has only 2 vacuum dependent devices, the AI which is BU to an Aspen, and the retracting step. If the AI became electric is there a cost effective way to modify the step retract mechanism to get rid of the vacuum pump? I'd be in the same boat or should I say plane. I have though of what I'd do. I think a linear actuator would be best. Of course my former 64E just had a hand crank to raise and lower the step. Worked great except for the times when I left the step down. It took a while for me to figure out why I was not going as fast as I thought I should. What about attaching it to the intake manifold vacuum somewhat like the standby vacuum system? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 BB, 1) Consider the aerodynamic fixed step that is on the O... 2) Fly at high altitudes where air density/viscosities are lower. 3) Rob/Takair has an STC for a linear actuator that he is using for auto-mixture control. May need some changes to make it useable... 4) Get a used back-up vacuum system, mount it in the tail to operate the step... (A whole bunch of half ideas that came to mind) Best regards, -a- A linear actuator might be worth considering. I'm thinking a hydraulic cylinder with a hand pump operating as my flaps do. Or a mechanical system using a crank (or Johnson bar!) and cable. I wonder if a cable could be connected to gear mechanism. I'm thinking the vacuum pump might be the most elegant. Al Mooney was a clever devil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If Al only had linear actuators in his time... -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piperpainter Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 you can just get ride of the step....it'll save you a few pounds too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMcClure Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 This is great. I've already removed my KI-256 and replaced it with the Mid-Continent SAM. I've removed my vacuum system. Now, if enough Mooney owners push B&C to expand their stand-by alternators to fit in place of the vacuum pump maybe they will. They are currently available for most Bonanza's and Cessna 182, 206, 210. So how about it guys, put some pressure on them. Wait, what? There is a stand by AI to replace the primary Vacuum AI? What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I was originally planning on installing the Mid Continent electric backup. My avionics guy suggested the Sandia and told me it would be approved by year end. His Sandia rep told him all the FAA paperwork has been completed (whatever that means) and the unit should arrive in December or January. I hope he's right... I am also hoping to see the Sandia 340 Quattro also approved, but it is still pending TSO approval and has been for sometime. I don't see the policy change making it permissible to install a non-TSO'd electronic backup instrument though. Its just making it easier as a minor mod in some cases, yet the same requirements rules apply and some of the PFD manufactures (e.g., Garmin, Aspen) still may have their own specific requirements for backup instruments as a part of their STC which will need to be taken into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike261 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 1. A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may be replaced with a single primary function electronically-driven attitude indicator. A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may also be replaced with an electronically-driven attitude indicator that provides a secondary (advisory) function (such as turn & slip indication). 1. The electronically-driven attitude indicator must fit into the existing location of the vacuum-driven attitude indicator and be properly set to indicate level flight. The existing airspeed, altitude, and turn/bank indicators must remain in their originally certificated or basic “T” locations. the two snippets above are culled from the doc. it seems the bendix king KI 300 was tailor made for this...or vice versa. lobbyists? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Why the qualified "single function"?? Doesn't this exclude Apsen,Garmin PFDs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Good point . Apart from the RC2600, all instruments I am aware of have more than 1 function Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Why the qualified "single function"?? Doesn't this exclude Apsen,Garmin PFDs? that's why they all have STCs What I see in this "softening" of position is allowing your attitude indicator to be replaced with an electric one without going through the STC process. The replacement unit must be TSO approved. If you want anything more than a simple attitude indicator replacement you must still go the STC route. Edited September 25, 2015 by Cruiser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 I assume this will work with the new rule. http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/flight-instruments/gyros-horizon/rca-2600-3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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