Scolded by my CFII. :)

[Mcstealth]

Here we were, my CFII and I, training, and he pulls the power, and the airport is not an option. We are in his 172, 180hp trainer and I trim to 70kts. I pick a field, I'm to high. I change fields, and I am high again. I line up a third field and,he gets on me for not circiling the first field. Well, is it a sin to change my chosen landing area?

David

[FlyDave]

Were you doing instrument training (CFII?)? If so, then if you descend out of an overcast sky and find a decent place to land - TAKE IT!

If PP training, it depends on a number of things. We always like options. Being too high - high enough to pick a different landing spot - CAN provide options. But, to define "too high" you need to understand your glide ratio, altitude and winds. You can quickly get caught on the short end of the stick by re-evalutating and second guessing yourself (take my word for it!!).

In a glider with a minimum glide rations of 28 to 1, you need to be commited by 1500' AGL. A 172 is probably about 7 to 1 - pretty degraded glide ratio. If I had to dead-stick my mooney and had a decent place at 2000' AGL I would be commited.

Landing at a place other than an airport is dicey!! There are power and telephone lines as well as many possible obstructions on the ground you can't see from 1000'-1500' up. There are entire web sites devoted to land-out fields and their pros and cons. An old thread here on Mooney space conviced me that I WOULD land gear up if doing an off-airport landing.

I think all pilots should get their glider rating and go do some soaring. It's an amazing form of flying. I have landed almost 300 times without an engine and I think it makes me a better pilot in general but especially in and emergency situation.

[lahso]

It depends on training for engine out in VMC or IMC. I'll assume VMC, and if so, generally you commit to one spot. I teach students to quickly eval a spot, then commit without changing, unless sufficient altitude allows for a change. If you were too high, that's okay. The landing environment could still be made unless terrain/obstructions would not permit you to lose altitude safely. In a C172, it is relatively easy to slow down with flaps, and forward slips to lose the altitude. Alot of variables play into these things, so have a good discussion with your instructor - on the ground - and practice, practice, practice.

[Parker_Woodruff]

In real life, if altitude permitted, you can always change fields (especially if safer than doing a 360 and being uncertain of making it all the way around).

 

For training, assume that first field you selected is the only field within 20 miles of you that isn't a total forest.  Do what it takes to commit and modify your ground track and control inputs accordingly.  Use everything to your advantage once you've committed.  (Slips, flaps, etc.)

What happens if you're at 2000' AGL, 3/4 a mile short of the runway, and you lose your engine.  Maybe not enough altitude to make a 360.  I'm getting those Cessna barndoor flaps in as soon as I can.

Hope that helps!

[Hank]

You can also fly S-turns on your approach to bleed off a little altitude, it just makes your ground track longer. Gentle banks, and don't lose sight of the field. Slips help, too, just don't do both at the same time.

When you do this in a Mooney, realize that the higher glide ratio will give you more choices, and make it more difficult to reach a closer location. Full flaps and S-turns are about it.

On my PP checkride, I picked a field, started down, but was too high so moved to the next field out. Lined up nicely there, and held the approach until the DPE told me to go around. He had no problem with either choice, or with my change. Just talk your way through it so he can understand your thinking.

[jlunseth]

Having done this (simulated off field) many times in the last couple of years, I have some thoughts on the "off field." 

(1) They teach us not to land on roads because of power lines, use a farm field instead.  But here in the midwest I don't think any CFI's have bothered to walk a farm field lately.  Most are heavily plowed, and the surface is guaranteed to take your gear out.  Most also have power lines around them, you just don't see the power line until you are closer to the field because of the backscatter (forest, swamps, etc.).  Roads look like the best bet to me, power lines or not, cause there are power lines everywhere.  Heck, what do they think runs along the edges of that field.  Roads on all four sides with the same power lines.  Duh.  Its not the CFI's anyway, it is what they are told to preach by the FAA.  Get out and walk a field, pheasant hunt or something, you will see what I am talking about.

(2)  I don't see any problem with changing fields if, as is fairly common here, the field that looked hospitable at two miles is not very when you get closer.  I think your CFII got on you because you chose to change fields not because the field was bad, but because your altitude was too high.  That is a good criticism.  If you have a good field, commit to it.  Have your CFII take you up to practice some simulated engine outs from altitude.  You will learn the rate at which the aircraft descends in a power off circle, and you can use that to determine how many circles it is going to take to get in a position to land into the wind.  Very good maneuver to learn. 

[DaV8or]

I was taught roads are OK, just to watch out for the many hazards. If I have a real engine out in my plane, I will really be looking for a suitble hard surface, including roads and then fields. I might switch fields too, but only if I got down low only to find something really wrong with my first choice and there was another within glide.

To the OP- I think your instructor is just giving you hints on what they will be looking for on the checkride. Pick a field and stick with it.

[jlunseth]

Quote: DaV8or

I think your instructor is just giving you hints on what they will be looking for on the checkride. Pick a field and stick with it.

[Mcstealth]

Thanks for all the replys.

Going for my checkride next week.

David

 

[Dan]

I did exactly this scenario a month or so ago on my checkride. The DPE declared my engine was on fire what was  I going to do.. Well, I simulated the steps and he replied the fire was out, but I needed to put it down. Where was I going. I had plenty of altitude and found a green field, likely wheat. I got a bit closer and saw another field, longer and appeared flatter. I changed direction and was asked what I was doing.  I said I do not like that field as well as this one. Its longer, looks flat and is a better choice. I am currently on base ready to turn final. Oh.. I see was the response. Lets get out of here... He did not think anything of it.  Your CFII may be like mine was. Secretly think that it is ok, but give you a hard time as its not the "proper" way.

Good luck on your checkride. Its worth it in the end.

 

Dan