IrishTiger

Epps Aviation At KPDK No Longer Servicing Mooneys

19 posts in this topic

Just a heads up in case anyone uses them (I've seen some Mooneys over there), but as of August 1st they've stopped working on Mooneys altogether. 

 

They've bungled up a number of projects for me, and it's cost me thousands of dollars, literally just down the drain. Just to install a KT74 ADS-B Transponder that I bought (we're talking just the install here), they wanted $2,500. 

 

But - I just got word from them that they are no longer working on Mooneys.

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That's odd.  I just had them swap out the MFD on my G1000 and they did a fine job at a reasonable rate.  Also, Pat Epps started his career as a Mooney sales guy so it seems incongruous that they would drop supporting them.  I'm going to dig into this.

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That's odd.  I just had them swap out the MFD on my G1000 and they did a fine job at a reasonable rate.  Also, Pat Epps started his career as a Mooney sales guy so it seems incongruous that they would drop supporting them.  I'm going to dig into this.

 

 

Yeah I'm surprised too. They did the odd task for me here and there. I was just going to bite the bullet and have them install the damn transponder so I wouldn't have to fly it anywhere, but when I emailed them about it, this is the response I got....

 

------

Email:

Ryan,

 

   As of August 1st Epps Aviation is no longer performing maintenance on Mooney Aircraft.  We are having too much difficulty obtaining parts and support on them.  We have one Mooney in the hangar that we are finishing up that was started 2 months ago and that will be the last one.  I apologize for any inconvenience that this decision may cause.

------

 

They put in a loaner attitude indicator for me while the third one they installed was out being serviced (that was the 12 grand I spent trying to get it working, they kept installing bad units, but charging me the labor to take the defective ones out), and I never got the old one back. They never calibrated the autopilot or anything, so I'm always slightly left of course. It's maddening, especially when I'm trying to shoot an approach. I asked him (Russ) if he could at least calibrate my autopilot and he said no, he wouldn't be able to do that. I'm kind of pissed off because they are the ones who started this whole cluster..... I want it fixed (and it's still on my dime!). 

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I recommend Sarasota Avionics, they did mine for 4 Hrs labor (however it part of a larger install, so I didn't have to pay the overhead of removing the interior, etc), if you are replacing the 76 you can do a simple swap but will not get the ADSB out.

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I recommend Sarasota Avionics, they did mine for 4 Hrs labor (however it part of a larger install, so I didn't have to pay the overhead of removing the interior, etc), if you are replacing the 76 you can do a simple swap but will not get the ADSB out.

They quoted me 2100 last year to replace a KT76, later called to reduced it to 1600. I thought that was a bit "ambitious" for a connector pin remapping, tray change and hooking up to a 430W. This was on a 70F model with easy access to the tray and avionics. Needless to say, I declined their "special" pricing. Another avionics guy looked it and figured 3 hrs labor and xponder recertification for about $400 all in

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I went straight to the source on this, with a note to Stacey Ellis at Mooney (copied Tom Bowen, too, just to see if I could guess his email address correctly...success!). Here is Stacey's reply:

 

Jeff,

 

Epps was sent a contract last August to re-sign as an authorized Mooney Service Center, but they declined to re-sign. They haven’t been an MSC for a year now. We have 51 MSC’s both Domestic and International and support all with parts and tech support. We not only give tech support to the MSC’s, but to any potential or current Mooney owner of the first models to today’s Ovation and Acclaim. Parts are being made for most all of the models and sold through our Parts Dept to all the MSC’s that order the parts since we don’t sell parts direct. A current listing of all the MSC’s can be found at www.mooney.com under the Service/Support tab. We are always looking for reputable shops to become MSC’s to feel gaps that aren’t currently covered. I always welcome recommendations of a shop that may want to become an MSC for us to explore.  Anyone can email technicalsupport@mooney.com or myself at any time if needing help with any issue.

 

Stacey Ellis

Technical Support Engineer

 

So I guess Epps has decided not to be an MSC anymore.  Although in theory, this shouldn't impact things like avionics which are not real Mooney-specific anyway. But hey, they made a business decision...so be it!

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I went straight to the source on this, with a note to Stacey Ellis at Mooney (copied Tom Bowen, too, just to see if I could guess his email address correctly...success!). Here is Stacey's reply:

 

Jeff,

 

Epps was sent a contract last August to re-sign as an authorized Mooney Service Center, but they declined to re-sign. They haven’t been an MSC for a year now. We have 51 MSC’s both Domestic and International and support all with parts and tech support. We not only give tech support to the MSC’s, but to any potential or current Mooney owner of the first models to today’s Ovation and Acclaim. Parts are being made for most all of the models and sold through our Parts Dept to all the MSC’s that order the parts since we don’t sell parts direct. A current listing of all the MSC’s can be found at www.mooney.com under the Service/Support tab. We are always looking for reputable shops to become MSC’s to feel gaps that aren’t currently covered. I always welcome recommendations of a shop that may want to become an MSC for us to explore.  Anyone can email technicalsupport@mooney.com or myself at any time if needing help with any issue.

 

Stacey Ellis

Technical Support Engineer

 

So I guess Epps has decided not to be an MSC anymore.  Although in theory, this shouldn't impact things like avionics which are not real Mooney-specific anyway. But hey, they made a business decision...so be it!

 

 

Nice job finding out the details!!

 

Yeah he said no to even calibrating my autopilot, so I don't think they'll do any Mooney work. I sent him a follow up email asking him about servicing my O2, or even minor mechanical things like walking out to the airplane and seeing hydraulic fluid puddling up by the tire (had that happen before) - and they fixed it quick, fast and in a hurry. I suppose they just don't want to deal with our airplanes. Of course with my airplane, they couldn't get crap right from the avionics perspective, and Randy and Ray from the avionics shop were both canned (they were incompetent idiots) and now they have some guy named Micah Montgomery that took over the avionics shop, and Russ Wiley is over the entire shop now.

 

I mean for all the money I've wasted with these buffoons, you'd think they'd have the courtesy to say something, or mail something to me in my monthly statement. In general I've always felt that they are a dishonest company. Their labor rates are incredibly high, and the bills are always a fortune, and when they aren't right, too bad so sad.... For example, the Mooney guys there replaced my recog light with a 14V bulb, and of course when I turned it on, it zapped it because its a 28V system. I had to go buy and show him the correct bulb, and Russ insisted he was right and would never refund me for that $400 just to replace a recog light. I only used them when I needed to, but they were a real hassle. In a sense, it may be good riddance. I was a new owner, and figured, well, they must know what they're doing. No - I always went and double checked their work. 

 

I've always wanted to find other parking at PDK. I don't even want to pay those people to park there. Although the front desk folks have always been very courteous and helpful.

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I went straight to the source on this, with a note to Stacey Ellis at Mooney (copied Tom Bowen, too, just to see if I could guess his email address correctly...success!). Here is Stacey's reply:

 

Jeff,

 

Epps was sent a contract last August to re-sign as an authorized Mooney Service Center, but they declined to re-sign. They haven’t been an MSC for a year now. We have 51 MSC’s both Domestic and International and support all with parts and tech support. We not only give tech support to the MSC’s, but to any potential or current Mooney owner of the first models to today’s Ovation and Acclaim. Parts are being made for most all of the models and sold through our Parts Dept to all the MSC’s that order the parts since we don’t sell parts direct. A current listing of all the MSC’s can be found at www.mooney.com under the Service/Support tab. We are always looking for reputable shops to become MSC’s to feel gaps that aren’t currently covered. I always welcome recommendations of a shop that may want to become an MSC for us to explore.  Anyone can email technicalsupport@mooney.com or myself at any time if needing help with any issue.

 

Stacey Ellis

Technical Support Engineer

 

So I guess Epps has decided not to be an MSC anymore.  Although in theory, this shouldn't impact things like avionics which are not real Mooney-specific anyway. But hey, they made a business decision...so be it!

I am going to forward this to Bender Aviation at KCLW. They have a bunch of Mooneys on the field they take care of and would make an excellent MSC.

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On 8/5/2015 at 10:02 AM, IrishTiger said:

 

 

Yeah I'm surprised too. They did the odd task for me here and there. I was just going to bite the bullet and have them install the damn transponder so I wouldn't have to fly it anywhere, but when I emailed them about it, this is the response I got....

 

------

Email:

Ryan,

 

   As of August 1st Epps Aviation is no longer performing maintenance on Mooney Aircraft.  We are having too much difficulty obtaining parts and support on them.  We have one Mooney in the hangar that we are finishing up that was started 2 months ago and that will be the last one.  I apologize for any inconvenience that this decision may cause.

------

 

They put in a loaner attitude indicator for me while the third one they installed was out being serviced (that was the 12 grand I spent trying to get it working, they kept installing bad units, but charging me the labor to take the defective ones out), and I never got the old one back. They never calibrated the autopilot or anything, so I'm always slightly left of course. It's maddening, especially when I'm trying to shoot an approach. I asked him (Russ) if he could at least calibrate my autopilot and he said no, he wouldn't be able to do that. I'm kind of pissed off because they are the ones who started this whole cluster..... I want it fixed (and it's still on my dime!). 

I couldn't help but think of this post when I read this article: http://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/june/15/new-bendixking-repair-policy-delayed-60-days

"Tim Jones of Atlanta-based Epps Aviation said that the repair policy would not drastically alter the workflow in his avionics shop. “We kind of moved away from bench repair stuff,” Jones told AOPA. “We’re more of a troubleshoot-and-exchange shop.” He added that Epps avionics technicians install a lot of new equipment, and the proposed procedures help better allocate an avionics technician’s time. “If we can do an exchange and move on to the next thing, it’s not a bad thing,” he explained.

I like how they are an exchange and move on kinda shop, notice he mentions nothing about making sure that problem is solved.

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On August 5, 2015 at 11:23 AM, teejayevans said:

I recommend Sarasota Avionics, they did mine for 4 Hrs labor (however it part of a larger install, so I didn't have to pay the overhead of removing the interior, etc), if you are replacing the 76 you can do a simple swap but will not get the ADSB out.

I have seen some of the work Sarasota did on a Mooney I used to take care of.  It took many efforts to get it right.  In the end likely more expensive than the local shops would have been.

Clarence 

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I have seen some of the work Sarasota did on a Mooney I used to take care of.  It took many efforts to get it right.  In the end likely more expensive than the local shops would have been.
Clarence 

I went to PGD FWIW, Florida doesn't have sales tax on a aircraft maintenance which is a plus. They seem to have the least expensive quotes for common stuff, some other is more.

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One of those big name FL avionics shops sent 4 sheet metal screws right through the side fuselage skin behind the cowl of my IAs Mooney.  Fwiw.  

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Ouch..pics please..!

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On 8/5/2015 at 7:22 AM, Jeff_S said:

That's odd.  I just had them swap out the MFD on my G1000 and they did a fine job at a reasonable rate.  Also, Pat Epps started his career as a Mooney sales guy so it seems incongruous that they would drop supporting them.  I'm going to dig into this.

Just unscrew and unplug? I can't imagine removing the mfd requires a skill. 

-Robert 

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The best guy on our field for radio repairs died last year. His son is great as well but he's also up there in years. No younger people coming up that have any knowledge of electronics. No wonder we're moving to factory repairs only. 

-Robert. 

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You are correct. Kids don't mess with cars. They don't study electronics and if they do it is all theoretical They can't solder or troubleshoot to save their lives.

We are truly a throw away society now. If it breaks, throw it away and get a new one. Besides the old one is obsolete anyway if it is more than 6 months old.

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3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

We are truly a throw away society now.

They even discard pilots after 65 years.  Such a shame. :wacko:

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Not sure why this thread got renewed after so long, but I can report that Epps continues to work on at least some Mooney avionics issues, as they have done some good work for me dealing with a few niggly issues of late.  Since the G1000 is so modular, they don't have any issues doing maintenance on these components. Yes, their rates are higher for labor, but when you factor in the cost and time of ferrying the plane somewhere else it mostly evens out as least for smaller projects.

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There's also a lot a variability in MSCs capability and interest.  When I wanted to get a PPI done on my 75F near Calgary 3 years ago, Cavalier (an MSC) wouldn't do it because they "don't work on Mooneys that old".  I was surprised and asked for confirmation.  Got a followup phone call that confirmed.

Luckily, I ended up in Kitchener with the old school attitude of diagnose first, then resolve.  The shotgun approach of part swapping would drive me nuts.

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