Mooney as a first plane

[Shadrach]

"Although Mooney claims a cabin width of 43.5 inches for the MSE, this measurement is taken at the elbow-level cutouts; and even if the numbers are similar to other single-engine retracts, the Mooney interior has never been one to inspire thoughts of the great outdoors" ---- source http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/1996/September/1/Mooney-MSE

I love my F and I have probably 200hrs in various Arrows over the years. Anyone who advocates a Mooney cabin is spacious is drinking too much Kool Aid. While they are the ultimate combo of value, speed, fuel burn, useful load, etc. they have some trade offs. Cabin comfort is certainly one of them and they wouldn't be my choice for a lot of unimproved airstrips.

Who said anything about spacious? :-/ You said the arrow had a roomier cabin, I asked for dimensions. None of the 4 place singles are spacious save for maybe the Commander and the Socata lines. Honorable mention to the C177 for egress and ingress. Mooneys are definitely tight, but then so is everything else in class.

[Rik]

I've been reading through a few of the forums and have been researching a few different planes.  I'm currently 6 minutes (yes 6 minutes of instrument time) away from meeting all my qualifications to take my practical exam.  I'm looking mainly at Piper (Arrow) and Mooney (M20F or open to others).  It appears to me that with Mooney you get more bang for your buck with a lower TTAF, SMOH, better instrument panel, interior and higher cruise speed than you would with a similarly priced Piper Arrow.  What am I missing here?   

I've soloed in a 150, 172, and have a few hours in an Arrow so far.  I'm not a fan of the high wing Cessna as they seem to be more prone to crosswinds, which is always an issue here in NW Missouri.  I will probably travel 2-3 times a month on longer routes ranging from 150-500nm.  I would like to move on to get IFR certification and like the idea of gaining time in a complex airplane.  My budget is up to 60-70k.  I'm looking into insurance quotes currently, I'm not sure if any of you guys have had an issue with that?  

I guess my main question, am I crazy to want to start out on a Mooney?  If so, what would you suggest?  What planes?  Thanks in advance for the advice!  

 

 

I'm in a similar situation. I've got 33 hrs and just need my 3 hrs of night and I am done and have been looking at what's there and what's really best.

 

If... (I use two flight schools in two different locations and see a lot of guy's/girls that are afraid of landings while in the lobbies) your good at landings I don't think from the research I've been doing that mastering the Mooney's speeds will be hard for anyone.

 

On the other hand, if you have trouble with airspeed in the pattern it could be a problem. One of the flight schools I use has a M20C they rent, but the owner said people need to have a minimum of 20 hrs post ticket to rent it and a 2-3hr checkout with emphasis on GUMPS and not forgetting the put the gear down with a lot of distractions thrown at you.

 

Value... There are expensive Mooney's and there are some down right CHEAP Mooney's and there are some somewhere in between.  I certainly have not figured out what the difference between all the Mooney models are as of yet. 

 

The F seem like a good deal. There are certainly lots of owners on here that give them thumbs up all the time so if you have the skills then it could very well be a great first plane.

[jbs007]

I'd scoot right up against her in the back seat... "Golly ma'am, it's too bad these Mooney's have such small cabins" 

[ArtVandelay]

Not spacious? I think this advertisement from 1962 shows otherwise. Look at all that room in the back seat!

I didn't know they had Photoshop back then?

[mike_elliott]

You are in a similar situation to mine 7 months ago- just about to finish my PPL, shopping for an Archer or Arrow as my first plane, wondering if a Mooney is a much better value. I got an M20C and am so glad I did NOT get the Piper.  It is a much better value.  There is really no catch here.  You need a mechanic who really knows the less ubiquitous Mooneys for some issues, but not for many routine things. Minimal difference in my insurance quotes - a couple hundred bucks.  Get a PPI  from a real Mooney expert, then take time to find someone who knows the plane well for your transition training.  They are different from Pipers and Cessnas but very rewarding and certainly not hard to fly.

good advice DXB. You will be $$ ahead if you get a PPI by someone like Ivan James in Mo. or Don Maxwell in Longview, someone who really knows Mooneys. Don't sell yourself short on training either. Get a Mooney specific CFI to do your transition training with, they will get you up to speed correctly in short order while cleaning up some of the "slop" that most of the time is present in former 172/warrior pilots. I wouldn't choose someone who once maybe trained someone in a Mooney sometime back, but typically teaches in Cessna's or flys big iron daily, but rather pick someone who can teach you how to fly a Mooney properly. It will be cheaper in the long run. It is not that these guys are typically bad instructors, they are just not the right instructor for this job, and like in any profession, are not a specialist in this particular area. Be ready to really know how to be on speed all the time, the correct profile to fly any plane really.

[M20F]

Who said anything about spacious? :-/ You said the arrow had a roomier cabin, I asked for dimensions. .

As the article points out Mooney takes a more creative way of measuring their cabin than others, so book figures are not comparable. The OP is asking for feedback and that should include positive and negatives of a type, cabin space/comfort/size is certainly not a strong point in a Mooney over an Arrow.

[Shadrach]

As the article points out Mooney takes a more creative way of measuring their cabin than others, so book figures are not comparable. The OP is asking for feedback and that should include positive and negatives of a type, cabin space/comfort/size is certainly not a strong point in a Mooney over an Arrow.

 

I've spent time in both. I see no real world difference. The panel seems closer in a Mooney.  The cabins pre1970 PA28Rs were actually 5" shorter than the later models and are less roomy than a mid body Mooney by a noticeable margin.  Most Arrow aficionados claim that the early short bodied 180hp birds were the fastest  at ~ 140kts. I am not suggesting that we fly big roomy airplanes, but other than favoring one type's seating position over the other, roominess is a wash.

[adamsboomer]

I began training in mooney with 42.1 Hrs.  All of my time up to that was in 152.  I had no difficulty flying it nor transitioning to complex.  It was vastly different with crosswinds, up to that point I was comfortable in component of 14.  In mooney I struggled with 9, at 120hrs now I am ok with around 11.  Despite it being heavier and faster I am not as comfortable with the slow speed stuff.

[Oldguy]

I have likened the seating position in a Mooney versus a Cessna to the difference between my MGB and my Dodge RAM - you sit with your knees straight and feet out in front of you rather than with your knees bent. Sure, the Mooney is tighter to get into, but once in, I fit comfortably and there is space to fit someone behind me. With 45 gals. I have taken several flights with my wife and another couple (Mooney pilot and his wife) for dinner or to the beach. I'm not as tall as Yetti (wow, 6'9"!) at a petite 6'5" and 215 lbs., but ingress and egress are relatively straightforward.

 

John

[Andy95W]

It's amazing how many ways a Barbie doll can be posed.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think they found the same Barbie 6 years later to sit on the wing. Amazing how much things in America changed in such a short amount of time. Like comparing June Cleaver to "I Dream of Jeanie".

[AlanA]

After 70 hours in a Cherokee and new PPL, I bought my first plane  - a Mooney M20J.    Insurance required 10 instruction.  I didn't find the transition any big deal.

What was the 2nd plane I bought?.......  another M20J.   Best advice I ever got was "if you bounce hard, or twice automatically go around.

 

I just got the renewal for my insurance ----  $980  That's with 720 PIC time.

 

Here is my two cents worth of advice:

-- if you will be flying over mountains then get a Mooney

--  if your flights will be longer than 300 miles then get a Mooney

--If you will be landing at long, and asphalted airports then get a Mooney

[Hank]

My Mooney worked very well based the first seven years at the obstructed 3000' field where I got my license. I occasionally visit grass, like the 3500' strip at the beach.

[chrisk]

My Mooney worked very well based the first seven years at the obstructed 3000' field where I got my license. I occasionally visit grass, like the 3500' strip at the beach. To see what a Mooney can do in the right hands (not mine!), look up piperpainter's videos on YouTube, it's jaw dropping!

He definitely does things in a Mooney that I would not do in my Mooney.  It's also interesting to see what the POH says for take off distances for the various Mooneys.  An E (at sea level) uses a lot less runway than my K.

[Rik]

After 70 hours in a Cherokee and new PPL, I bought my first plane  - a Mooney M20J.    Insurance required 10 instruction.  I didn't find the transition any big deal.

What was the 2nd plane I bought?.......  another M20J.   Best advice I ever got was "if you bounce hard, or twice automatically go around.

 

I just got the renewal for my insurance ----  $980  That's with 720 PIC time.

 

Here is my two cents worth of advice:

-- if you will be flying over mountains then get a Mooney

--  if your flights will be longer than 300 miles then get a Mooney

--If you will be landing at long, and asphalted airports then get a Mooney

 

Can you please define "Landing long"

 

The airport I'm based out of has a 3,300' runway..

[bonal]

I have flown into a number of fields that are well under 3000 no problem. Summer cross winds are a constant at home and our Mooney does a better job of flying them than I do. over all I'm very happy I went Mooney.

[N1026F]

I purchased my M20J Model before I soloed. I learned to fly in what I wanted to keep flying. It took a little longer but once you learn to land "by the numbers," you'll be fine.  

[cujet]

The Mooney is a four seat, single engine, low powered, general aviation aircraft, with all that encompasses. It's not some magical, difficult to control, overpowered monster. They meet all the FAA requirements for single engine stall speed, G loads, and controllability. In other words, they are docile, have low approach and stall speeds and good recovery characteristics. It's an ideal first plane in my opinion. One that you can grow into, is useful, can be operated efficiently at reasonable cost, and is a superb cross country aircraft. What's not to like?

[drake15d]

I bought an '83 M20J having never flown in a Mooney before. I absolute do not regret my decision. Buy for the mission. Mooneys are lightweight, fast and efficient over long distances. It's not a freight train, so if you have a large family you will need a Bonanza probably.

[Immelman]

1. Friends don't let friends buy (Normally aspirated) Piper Arrows. They are a decent complex trainer, but that's it. Leave them for the flight school.

 

2. A Mooney is a fine first airplane and don't let anyone talk you out of that. Transaction costs and time are non negligable. Pay for a good Mooney knowledable CFI until you're comfortable, I guarantee it will be less money than the time, cost, and headache of buying a trainer, selling it, and then buying a Mooney -- assuming a Mooney is what you really want.

 

3. Mooneys are not necessarily the best crosswind machines. They are capable, and over the years certain enhancements have been made (longer rudder), but generally speaking they are some work in a crosswind and require finesse, and possibly partial flaps and a higher approach speed. You wll run out of rudder in a Mooney sooner than in a Cessna. So if that's your concern... I suggest you go fly the crap out of a Cessna in strong crosswinds and get comfortable. Do the abuse to a trainer before the airplane you buy.

[Mooney20]

I would not advocate a Mooney as a first airplane for a brand new Private Pilot. Mooneys are not hard to fly per se, but precision is required to fly them well. Fixed gear, fixed pitch prop trainers hide a lot of ills that will be quickly uncovered by a Mooney. My advice would be to get a fixed gear Cessna or Piper and fly it for a year or so while getting your instrument rating and some experience under your belt.

If you start with a Mooney, insurance could be problematic because statistics, the currency of insurance companies, are not in your favor. Years ago, I gave a Private Pilot 20 hours insurance-required dual in a 55 Baron. He was non-instrument rated, had a few hundred hours and was coming from a C-182. His insurance was $400 a MONTH. Anyway, he and the airplane eventually ended up in a soybean field.

[ArtVandelay]

I would not advocate a Mooney as a first airplane for a brand new Private Pilot. Mooneys are not hard to fly per se, but precision is required to fly them well. Fixed gear, fixed pitch prop trainers hide a lot of ills that will be quickly uncovered by a Mooney. My advice would be to get a fixed gear Cessna or Piper and fly it for a year or so while getting your instrument rating and some experience under your belt.

.

If you are going to do that, just rent, no use losing a lot money on a short term ownership.

And no, no matter what they tell you, airplanes are not investments!

[gsxrpilot]

I would not advocate a Mooney as a first airplane for a brand new Private Pilot. Mooneys are not hard to fly per se, but precision is required to fly them well. Fixed gear, fixed pitch prop trainers hide a lot of ills that will be quickly uncovered by a Mooney. My advice would be to get a fixed gear Cessna or Piper and fly it for a year or so while getting your instrument rating and some experience under your belt.

If you start with a Mooney, insurance could be problematic because statistics, the currency of insurance companies, are not in your favor. Years ago, I gave a Private Pilot 20 hours insurance-required dual in a 55 Baron. He was non-instrument rated, had a few hundred hours and was coming from a C-182. His insurance was $400 a MONTH. Anyway, he and the airplane eventually ended up in a soybean field.

 

I couldn't disagree more. The Mooney was my first plane as a low time Private Pilot. It's a perfect first plane. Easy to fly, easy to land, and none of the 60 or so Mooney owners I happen to know personally, have any problem with cross wind landings. It's got the performance to encourage you to fly more and further. It also incentives you to become a better pilot. Buy a Cessna or Piper and you'll out grow it in a couple of months. Get a Mooney and enjoy flying the next thousand hours. Rent a trainer until you know how to fly... then buy a Mooney.

[Hank]

I strongly agree with Paul. I bought my Mooney five weeks after my PPL checkride. Just get a good Mooney instructor, join MAPA, go to a PPP soon. It's not that hard to learn, it's just different from the trainer. Six hundred fifty hours later, I'm still enjoying the same Mooney.

[ohdub]

I bought my first plane in March - an M20J - I've put 60 hours on it so far and had no regrets. I was flying a 182 before and while it is larger inside, I actually find the Mooney more comfortable on long flights.

[Mooney20]

If you are going to do that, just rent, no use losing a lot money on a short term ownership.

And no, no matter what they tell you, airplanes are not investments!

Buy it right, maintain it and you can can be far ahead of the game verses renting, short term. It worked for me. I didn't even have to annual the first airplane I owned. Sold it for $50 less than I paid for it.

Regarding the vigorous disagreements with my position on this issue, yes, a low-time pilot can step right into a complex aircraft, but from the perspective of 37 years of flying, I would not recommend to my friends or family that they buy and fly a Mooney with less than 100 hours.