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Airline Pilots Association (ALPA) opposes 3rd Class Medical Reform


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I think these medicals do nothing.  I am of the opinion that there should be no medical of any sort inconveniencing people if they are for the sake of tests that are useless.  So I think there shouldn't even be a first class medical.  And the new proposal of a 3rd class medical restricting to 14500 ft is contrived.  Don't get me wrong, I know people could die at the yoke. But I don't think the medical does much if anything to predict who will die in the next 2 years (or 6 months).   Why isn't the AOPA collecting statistics on the number of people drop dead of natural causes during their supposed 2 year (or 6 month) period of supposed health?  Whether at the airplane or not.  For me that would prove the medical is useless and therefore they should cease.

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I really don't want to stir the pot. I just want us to be treated fairly. I want this wrong to be made right.

If you have never been grounded by a medical situation it would be difficult to understand how that feels. To go to the airport on a beautiful day, when you are feeling well and want to go flying...only you can't. It would be "illegal" because you don't have a valid Medical Certificate.

So you have to hire a CFI to sit in the right seat of your airplane and sign your log book when you're done flying, just to be legal and keep your aircraft insurance coverage in force. The CFI does this for six months plus and never has to do a thing other than take your check, reluctantly, and sign your log book, so that you can fly your airplane. Along the way your CFI may tell you, like mine did, "this is ridiculous".

On the days when your CFI is not available you sit on the ground and look at the sky knowing full well that it is perfectly safe for you to fly your airplane only, you can't, without violating the law. It is a very depressing and upsetting experience.

Then you stop and realize that the DOT has no concerns about your driving or boating activities, they aren't really concerned with transportation safety, they just don't want us flying little airplanes and you start getting mad.

Then during your next Bruce protocol stress test your Cardiologist states "you can have a perfectly normal stress test today and have a heart attack tomorrow". Maybe your Cardiologist will get annoyed, like mine does, with all the FAA wants him to do each year. He also thinks it is "ridiculous" and that makes me even more determined to see this through.

It's not just for me, but guys like my Dad and all the special but ordinary Americans that want to fly or may want to fly long after I am dead and gone. I think we owe it to them to do everything we can to preserve our right or privilege of flight.

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So,

1) why would Alpa come out against the Class III medical reform?

2) why would anyone care about the opinion from a group that doesn't use the Class III to begin with? Our special interest is better than yours...

Bk,

know that we are on the same team.

There are a few of us with SIs.

Continue to stay on target, stick to the facts, and build support.

Teamwork,

-a-

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You and I both know that a light aircraft couldn't manage to hit a larger plane even if we tried... They are just too fast and for most of flights too high. If this is their argument, why do we have sport pilots at all?

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http://mooneyspace.com/topic/15844-f16-and-a-c150-mid-air-near-charleston/

I think these medicals do nothing.  I am of the opinion that there should be no medical of any sort inconveniencing people if they are for the sake of tests that are useless.  So I think there shouldn't even be a first class medical.  And the new proposal of a 3rd class medical restricting to 14500 ft is contrived.  Don't get me wrong, I know people could die at the yoke. But I don't think the medical does much if anything to predict who will die in the next 2 years (or 6 months).   Why isn't the AOPA collecting statistics on the number of people drop dead of natural causes during their supposed 2 year (or 6 month) period of supposed health?  Whether at the airplane or not.  For me that would prove the medical is useless and therefore they should cease.

This is true of people who get medicals but it isn't necessarily true of people who are denied medicals. For example if I am blind, should I be able to fly an airplane? Taking an extreme example here but there are some people who physically shouldn't be flying (or driving cars for that matter). I get the whole challenge with SI's and my professional aviation career was stopped when uncorrected eyesight was a factor for 1st and 2nd class regardless of correctable. It isn't an entirely black and white issue. Than again we all know people out there who fly without medicals, annuals, etc. so who knows what the right answer is.

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That jet hit the GA aircraft not the other way around.

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/15844-f16-and-a-c150-mid-air-near-charleston/

This is true of people who get medicals but it isn't necessarily true of people who are denied medicals. For example if I am blind, should I be able to fly an airplane? Taking an extreme example here but there are some people who physically shouldn't be flying (or driving cars for that matter). I get the whole challenge with SI's and my professional aviation career was stopped when uncorrected eyesight was a factor for 1st and 2nd class regardless of correctable. It isn't an entirely black and white issue. Than again we all know people out there who fly without medicals, annuals, etc. so who knows what the right answer is.

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This is all a matter of perception. They have this in place to make general population believe they "do" something to protect them. Same thing with the eAPIS. How many terrorists did not manage to get in (or exit the) USA due to that?

It is also a way to justify several civil servant jobs. In my line of work, if you want to put something in place where you cannot measure benefits after it was put in place, this will not fly high with upper management. It all has to do with politics.

Yves

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I seriously doubt that you can attribute many GA/commercial collisions to medical issues on the GA side.

If ALPA really wants to address safety then additional training and checkouts should be recommended. I'm not advocating this but I'll bet there are a lot of untrained and/or idiot pilots out there that either disregard or don't understand airspace or altitude restrictions and cause commercial aircraft to deviate from a flight plan.

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We allow sport pilots in the sky with no medical and what, 20 hours of training. Did they come out against that? GA dies a death by 1000 cuts, and the 3rd class medical is just one more...

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I really cant figure what's in it for the ALPA folks to worry about 3rd class medical.  If they ever have a problem with a GA airplane in the class of a 3rd class medical, then it is likely due to stupidity and lack of training of the pilot - hardly likely because the pilot is having a medical incident.  In fact, I would be surprised if there has ever been an incident where the GA pilot had a medical issue that then caused a problem with an airliner.

 

On the other end, even ATPs and the airlines need GA.  Young kids who want to grow up to be 747 captains need to start somewhere.  There needs to be an aviation community for them to develop in, to dream in, and get their feet wet.  From there they can develop into the airline pilots.  This is true even if the budding young pilot goes through a program like embry riddle or maybe through the military, the whole system is much broader as a recruitment and development scenario if there is an actual community, including older or otherwise wiser and experienced pilots, and there is a GA economy of these same folks, buying avionics, paint jobs, paying mechanics, buying paint jobs and airplanes - there needs to be a whole aviation economy and ecosystem for the ATPs to grow from.  So I contend that it hurts the airlines sorely if the GA community is allowed to continue to shrink.  Oh yeah, how many airline pilots become CFIs on their way up - but now what if there aren't any more students? 

 

At some point, if GA shrinks so much that it becomes increasingly expensive for even healthy pilots to fly, then the shrinking process accelerates.

 

So I think ALPA is being really short sighted in that not supporting 3rd class medical reform helps their own membership of ATPs.

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So many really great posts on this thread. Ran out of likes. If you have not already checked to see if your representatives for your state are active in support of 3rd class medical reform on highway bill you need to be writing. My reps are fully in support. Yes, it is politics that is making ALPA "come out" the way they have on the issue. I have been impacted by goofy medical decisions. It is not the cost it is the impact of decisions beyond local treating doctor and your "mirror check".

If this is not done it is B.S.

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The third class is definitely a pain and I would like to see it go the way of the Dotto but I really don't think it's keeping new blood from joining the GA population. This might be a case that does not go to party politics and so even though I live in the people's republic I will send a note to my extremely liberal congressional representative indicating that the vast majority of pilots don't aggree with the ALPA point of view

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The third class is definitely a pain and I would like to see it go the way of the Dotto but I really don't think it's keeping new blood from joining the GA population. This might be a case that does not go to party politics and so even though I live in the people's republic I will send a note to my extremely liberal congressional representative indicating that the vast majority of pilots don't aggree with the ALPA point of view

 

I think it IS keeping new blood from entering GA - no young 18-22 year old pilots-to-be are not worried about medicals.  But all you need to do is go to my local rural airport to see a sleepy airport, that has lost a few of its already very few pilots, due to lost medicals.  Without a community there at the airport, and CFIs, and activity, it is much harder for young people to break in, and then also experience the wisdom of the seasoned pilots to develop into seasoned pilots themselves.

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One of the paragraphs in the ALPA's letter reads:

 

"This legislation has the potential to allow medically unfit pilots unfettered access to the national airspace at altitudes

up to 18,000 feet, which also includes commercial airline traffic carrying
passengers and cargo."
 
It does seem as if it addresses the public good.
 
While I would like to see third class medicals go away, I can't say that the public interest "at large" will be better served.  ALPA has a good point, in my opinion, which is what makes its statement damaging for those advocating an end to third class medicals.  :(

 

What about all of the medically unfit drivers on the roads??  Oh the humanity!!!!    I'll tell you exactly how it serves the public good - by not discouraging one to seek medical treatment when it is needed.  The class 3 medical is a very simple test; it is not hard for a sick person to hide potential health issues.  I have known more than a few older pilots that avoid any interaction that might risk a disqualifying diagnosis.  They're legal, but has the system as it is currently set up helped?  The mental health diqualifications need to be examined as well.  Do any of you have kids that have been diagnosed ADHD?  I hope that they don't aspire to take to the skies, because it will involve an uphill battle.

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What about all of the medically unfit drivers on the roads??  Oh the humanity!!!!    I'll tell you exactly how it serves the public good - by not discouraging one to seek medical treatment when it is needed.  The class 3 medical is a very simple test; it is not hard for a sick person to hide potential health issues.  I have known more than a few older pilots that avoid any interaction that might risk a disqualifying diagnosis.  They're legal, but has the system as it is currently set up helped?  The mental health diqualifications need to be examined as well.  Do any of you have kids that have been diagnosed ADHD?  I hope that they don't aspire to take to the skies, because it will involve an uphill battle.

 

Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, we're dealing with perception and sound bites, not reality.

 

The ALPA has weighed in.....for whatever reason, against modifying the rules governing third class medicals.  Whether deserved, or not, the ALPA speaks as with one voice and as an aviation authority.  In my opinion, they've hurt our efforts gravely....perhaps fatally.  Somehow AOPA must counter it.

 

Reality, and anger against the ALPA aren't going to win the day.  Political pressure and influencing public perception will.

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