BKlott Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 The ALPA has formally come out in opposition to Third Class Medical reform. My initial reaction was to question why they would take this position. After all, Third Class Medical reform has nothing to do with Commercial Aviation or the Airline Industry. It does have everything to do with the rights, freedoms and liberties of American Citizens who own and operate their aircraft in American Airspace. My message to the ALPA is this. It is frankly, NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! Earlier this afternoon I went to the ALPA website and selected the "contact us" option and sent them a message telling them this in no uncertain terms. Although I was limited to 600 characters I was able to get my message across. I would like to encourage each and everyone of you to do the same. On the BeechTalk website they have discussed this and there is speculation of a back room deal between the FAA Administrator Huerta and the ALPA. I do not know if there is any truth to that or not but it would not surprise me. Just like it would not surprise me to learn that there was a back room deal between the FAA and the DOT to sit on the FAA's proposal for Third Class Medical Reform that has been languishing at the DOT for a year now with no action. To the ALPA I would like to say this. We too can get stick our noses into your business. In light of what happened in the French Alps, where one crew member decided to commit suicide and murdered everyone on board that airline flight, what is to prevent something like that from happening on a U.S. Airline flight? Maybe we should consider writing to our Senators and Congressman suggesting more stringent on going psychological testing for all airline crew members! I believe that we need these higher standards in order to protect the flying public. After all, isn't aviation safety our number one priority? This is just one example of how we can turn the tables on the ALPA. Here's another. Every time there is any aircraft accident, the people in my circle want to know my opinion. They know that I am a licensed pilot and an aircraft owner and that I know more about it than they ever will. The people that you know and work with probably feel the same way about you. So maybe, collectively, we can get 400,000 to 500,000 pilots to start talking about how dangerous it is to fly with the airlines! We could say that is why we own our airplanes or fly ourselves! So if each of us started telling everyone we know how dangerous the airlines really are, even if we only reached 4 to 5 people each, that is still 1.6 million to 2.5 million potential airline passengers that may think twice before flying again. We could also talk about the poor treatment the traveling public receives by the airlines. The lost luggage and stolen personal property that we don't have to deal with when flying our own airplanes. Of course, we don't have to get undressed or scanned before getting on our airplanes. Collectively, we could have an impact! Fewer passengers leads to fewer flights leads to fewer airline pilots and thus, fewer ALPA members. If the ALPA wants to undermine Third Class Medical reform, which is none of their business in the first place, we can start our own campaign on many fronts that they won't appreciate at all. For those of you who don't care much about the proposed Medical Reform, let me remind you that we are the ONLY American Citizens who operate any motorized vehicle or conveyance for private use or personal pleasure purposes that are required to subject ourselves to any medical testing, evaluation or standards beyond the eye test required for a Drivers License. We are the ones who have been unfairly treated and wronged. Our cause is a just one. Do not give up the fight! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 ........... It does have everything to do with the rights, freedoms and liberties of American Citizens who own and operate their aircraft in American Airspace. One of the paragraphs in the ALPA's letter reads: "This legislation has the potential to allow medically unfit pilots unfettered access to the national airspace at altitudes up to 18,000 feet, which also includes commercial airline traffic carrying passengers and cargo." It does seem as if it addresses the public good. While I would like to see third class medicals go away, I can't say that the public interest "at large" will be better served. ALPA has a good point, in my opinion, which is what makes its statement damaging for those advocating an end to third class medicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 The cost doesn't justify the risk mitigation. Not even close. How would a medical issue endanger a jetliner? It's far fetched. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 And I don't think further endangering GA with these costs helps anyone in aviation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Pointing fingers at other groups won't help either side... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 As you are aware, the ALPA beats the "One level of safety" drum on quite a few issues. It maintains that as long as we all fly in the same airspace, everyone needs to be held to the same standards of safety. Reading the ALPA's letter, it seems that its stand on this issue is consistent with this approach. I'm not sure that the ALPA will prevail, but it's message is clear and consistent and AOPA needs to address any flaws in the ALPA's message directly because the ALPA has some political clout. Whether it has more than AOPA's remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 ALPA is roundly and soundly hated by a lot of airline pilots. Be that as it may, the ALPA speaks as if it is the voice of all "real pilots". This is why this letter is so damaging to AOPA's efforts. Unfortunately, emotional dislike of the organization does not dull the ALPA's effect on shaping the issue. We've got to meet them on the public forum and beat them on the merits of our cause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Sport pilots share the airspace already. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Truck/bus drivers need CDL licenses and medicals because they drive big trucks and buses and act as common carriers. Car drivers don't. That's the analogy. And a medical issue in a car is far more likely to harm those in other vehicles. I can drive a truck up to 10,000lbs without a CDL, inches from other drivers, without a medical, but I can't fly my 3,000lb Mooney similarly in the big sky... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Truck/bus drivers need CDL licenses and medicals because they drive big trucks and buses and act as common carriers. Car drivers don't. That's the analogy. And a medical issue in a car is far more likely to harm those in other vehicles. I can drive a truck up to 10,000lbs without a CDL, inches from other drivers, without a medical, but I can't fly my 3,000lb Mooney similarly in the big sky... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Obviously true, but unfortunately, the ALPA would merely counter that highway safety standards are not good enough and that pilots (all) need to be held to a higher standard. Given the imagery of a B-747 being brought down by a "medically unfit little airplane pilot", AOPA has its work cut out for it. However, I think AOPA can prevail if it builds on the LSA/Sport pilot precident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 You and I both know that a light aircraft couldn't manage to hit a larger plane even if we tried... They are just too fast and for most of flights too high. If this is their argument, why do we have sport pilots at all? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 You and I both know that a light aircraft couldn't manage to hit a larger plane even if we tried... Ah.....no. Cerritos comes to mind immediately. Unfortunately, our society is swayed by images of crashes more than it is tuned into reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 In Cerritos the jet overtook the Piper... But I understand the PR angle Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepingsquirrel Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I don't think anyone should fly because it endangers UAVs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N33GG Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Those Pipers overrun airliner jets all the time, but never Mooneys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKlott Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 The ALPAs expressed concern over the well being of it's members rings a bit hollow to me. They specifically address "medically unfit" citizens flying airplanes and the risk they pose to their membership; however, they make no mention of the "medically unfit" citizens driving motor vehicles on the very streets and highways that ALPA members must travel to and from the airports where they fly from. There is more than a little inconsistency in their position, isn't there?! Who are they (the ALPA) to pass judgement on any citizen's medical condition in the first place?! Who bestowed that authority on them? In my opinion, the ALPA is way out of line in this instance. If they want to stick their noses into our business on behalf of their 51,000 members, the AOPA and the EAA have far greater numbers of members and we may decide to stick our noses into their business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 For those of you who don't care much about the proposed Medical Reform, let me remind you that we are the ONLY American Citizens who operate any motorized vehicle or conveyance for private use or personal pleasure purposes that are required to subject ourselves to any medical testing, evaluation or standards beyond the eye test required for a Drivers License. We are the ones who have been unfairly treated and wronged. Our cause is a just one. Do not give up the fight! Thank you for trying to include me with clueless 15 1/2 years olds and soccer moms driving oversized SUV's. Please don't. I am very torn about how I feel about the 3rd class medical, so I am sure my thoughts will attract some haters. Go ahead. I am quite sure the 3rd class medical has never prevented an accident, and if someone truly wanted to fly, then a piece of paper (or lack thereof) would not stop them. A friend of mine grounded himself, appropriately enough, after having a minor stroke-like event. After a month, he was fine. It took him the mandatory 2 years to get approval for his medical. Should he have been grounded for 6 months? Probably. 2 years? NO. I believe in a case like his, the AME should have been permitted to sign the Special Issuance himself without approval or even consultation with the FAA. But the thing that separates me from the local idiot with a driver's license is that I act and fly professionally, whether or not I'm getting paid. And visiting a doctor every two years is something that separates us from those who drive cars and do not need to exhibit any level of professionalism. Cost? Anyone on this site who says they can't afford $100 every 2 years is lying. And as for the 3rd class medical "killing GA", I personally think it's good for a 16 or 17 year old to see that flying an airplane is not just a rubber stamp like getting a driver's license. It is something special. And ensuring some minimum level of medical safety is a way of showing that. I like that the 3rd class medical is yet another hoop to jump through. It helps to weed out the riff-raff and those who don't have the professionalism, or maturity, to share the sky with those of us who do. But I think the 3rd class medical should be a simple, streamlined process, and therefore cheaper. And the requirement for a Special Issuance should be common sense and easy for a local AME to approve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I pay way more than $100 and find the physical to be little more than a blood pressure check and a review of SELF REPORTED info... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Andy, Those who have even minor medical issues pay several thousand dollars for redundant testing, some to prove that they do not have a particular condition. Those of us who pay $100 every two years are the lucky ones. And since, even with a medical, we are supposed to evaluate ourselves before every flight and self-ground when necessary, what benefit do even we healthy ones receive from the medical exam? Other than the chance to miss one of the many questions and get ourselves a pile of legal trouble that takes years and thousands to correct. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKlott Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 "But the thing that separates me from the local idiot with a driver's license is that I act and fly professionally, whether or not I'm getting paid. And visiting a doctor every two years is something that separates us from those who drive cars and do not need to exhibit any level of professionalism." Andy, I always thought that what separates us from those who drive cars was the amount of training, the commitment to learning, acquiring and demonstrating the skills and knowledge necessary to earn our Pilots Licenses. The cost, commitment in time and resources to flying is what makes us "special". I never felt that going to an AME and paying him to check my urine for sugar and give me a cursory once over that was a far more superficial medical exam than my family doctor gives me three times year made me special. It was frankly a waste of my time and money all those years and did not add to aviation safety in the least. Andy, you wrote about weeding out the "riff raff" and those that are immature from flying. Isn't that what the written, oral and flight tests along with the time and resource commitment needed to earn a License accomplishes? I think it does. It certainly does far more than the Third Class Medical Exam accomplishes. Any bozo can show up an an AME office, piss, breathe and write a check. Not everyone can fly an airplane. So, if Pilots are "special" (and I believe that we are) than way are we treated with less respect and given fewer privileges than the general public? Why are ordinary citizens, allowed all by themselves, to determine when it is safe (or they are medically fit) for them to operate their cars and SUVs and motorcycles and motorhomes and powered watercraft while Licensed Pilots are not given the same latitude when operating their aircraft? If we are so "special" why are we treated differently? Why aren't we given more respect, rather than less respect than what is given to the general public? Having to obtain a Medical Certificate to fly an airplane and provide medical documentation to the government and submit to annual Bruce protocol stress tests to retain my flying privileges does not make me special. It lessens me. It means that I am being treated as a second class citizen and that hurts me deeply. Six weeks after my heart attack my Cardiologist said that in his opinion it was safe for me to resume flying. It took the FAA more than a year to agree with him. During that time I was denied what I believe to be my rights to fly my airplane in American Airspace due to a discriminatory and unjustified Medical Certificate requirement. As for cost, well I would like to purchase a Lynx NGT9000 to make my airplane ADS-B compliant, but my Special issuance Medical expires November 30th. Hard to justify the cost when there is no guarantee that I will get renewed. I'd also like to paint my airplane but, again, it's hard to justify the cost when I may only have 4 months of flying left. My Dad lost his medical some 10 years ago, tried for Special Issuance and was denied. He has continued flying with me ever since and can still handle the airplane from start-up to landing. And somehow he has not suffered a medical incapacitation during this time. Isn't it possible that the medical standards are unwarranted? In my Dad's case, all it has done was to deny a citizen his right to fly as pilot-in-command for ten years for no reason. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Truck/bus drivers need CDL licenses and medicals because they drive big trucks and buses and act as common carriers. Car drivers don't. That's the analogy. And a medical issue in a car is far more likely to harm those in other vehicles. I can drive a truck up to 10,000lbs without a CDL, inches from other drivers, without a medical, but I can't fly my 3,000lb Mooney similarly in the big sky... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You can actually drive a truck hauling a trailer up to 26,000 pounds without the CDL. My brother is a Trucker Teamster and trust me, his medical is a lot easier to maintain than our 3rd class medical. And they are allowed to be on the highway with tandem trailers and rigs weighing up to 70,000 pounds. I still maintain my position that the reason this disparity exists between driving and flying solely deals with the perception that driving is a right and flying is a privilege. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Sticking to the facts will be best for the argument. Flying in the USA is a privilege. Unfortunately, it is not a right... When Alpa tells you that the Class III will keep medically unfit people from flying small planes into the perfect planes flown by perfect people... Ask how one of their own type of pilots was able to land an Airbus (aka: perfect plane) in the Alps... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germanwings-alps-crash-live-airbus-a320-pilot-locked-out-of-cockpit-of-plane-downed-in-france-10134724.html Poor decision making and mental illnesses are not being measured by the Class III medical exam. Times have changed significantly. Health awareness has improved significantly. Back to the issue at hand... The Class III medical doesn't do what it is intended to, and it does some unintended things that are inappropriate... BK, have you sent a few letters yet? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Andy, Those who have even minor medical issues pay several thousand dollars for redundant testing, some to prove that they do not have a particular condition. Those of us who pay $100 every two years are the lucky ones. And since, even with a medical, we are supposed to evaluate ourselves before every flight and self-ground when necessary, what benefit do even we healthy ones receive from the medical exam? Other than the chance to miss one of the many questions and get ourselves a pile of legal trouble that takes years and thousands to correct. Hank and BK, I agree. The whole process should be streamlined and simplified. And the Special Issuance should be able to be approved by the local AME without approval or consultation by the FAA. But if they do that, then why have the 3rd class medical in the first place. Hey, like I said, I'm very torn about the whole thing. Conflicted, even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKlott Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Sticking to the facts will be best for the argument. Flying in the USA is a privilege. Unfortunately, it is not a right... When Alpa tells you that the Class III will keep medically unfit people from flying small planes into the perfect planes flown by perfect people... Ask how one of their own type of pilots was able to land an Airbus (aka: perfect plane) in the Alps... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germanwings-alps-crash-live-airbus-a320-pilot-locked-out-of-cockpit-of-plane-downed-in-france-10134724.html Poor decision making and mental illnesses are not being measured by the Class III medical exam. Times have changed significantly. Health awareness has improved significantly. Back to the issue at hand... The Class III medical doesn't do what it is intended to, and it does some unintended things that are inappropriate... BK, have you sent a few letters yet? Best regards, -a- I have been very active in communicating with Senators Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio as well as my Congressman, Gus Bilirakis. I have also sent "thank you" communications to Senator Boozman, Senator Inhofe and Congressman Graves for their efforts in helping us. For the record, 4 1/2 months after the FAA had received my initial Special Issuance package and I had received no response, Senator Nelson's office inquired on my behalf. The day after they made their inquiry is the date on the letter granting me my Special Issuance Medical. Coincidence or not? Senator Inhofe said it best when he said "if you can drive the car to the airport, you ought to be able to fly the airplane once you get there". Thank you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 If you really wanna stir the pot, how about medicals for gun permits? Self certification has proven itself with sport pilot... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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