ADS-B options

[231LV]

With the Jan 2020 date a mere 4.5 years off, I am thinking more and more about the options now coming on line for the ADS-B out (With an In optional) mandate. I'm wondering whether there is a repository for posts on the website that one can peruse for the latest information. The whole concept is generally understood, I suspect, but the specifics which every pilot needs to make an informed decision gets sketchy. This will clearly impact the checkbook and I'm thinking a lot of us will be looking to improve our panels with this upgrade. The good news is more and more options are popping up at a lower cost. Does someone have a firm enough grasp on this to give a brief, succinct, understandable explanation. That would help me look at options and determine which way I should start leaning. I don't want to get caught in a massive upgrade line at the avionics shops which is why I'm posting this now instead of 3 years from now.

[MyNameIsNobody]

I'll get back to you in a couple years. You will still have a couple years to implement...after the extension that is not supposed to happen, but will because the fleet is NOT updating at the price points that are being floated. I didn't pay $10grand for a 60" LED T.V. either...

On second thought...No. Do your own homework.

[Marauder]

With the Jan 2020 date a mere 4.5 years off, I am thinking more and more about the options now coming on line for the ADS-B out (With an In optional) mandate. I'm wondering whether there is a repository for posts on the website that one can peruse for the latest information. The whole concept is generally understood, I suspect, but the specifics which every pilot needs to make an informed decision gets sketchy. This will clearly impact the checkbook and I'm thinking a lot of us will be looking to improve our panels with this upgrade. The good news is more and more options are popping up at a lower cost. Does someone have a firm enough grasp on this to give a brief, succinct, understandable explanation. That would help me look at options and determine which way I should start leaning. I don't want to get caught in a massive upgrade line at the avionics shops which is why I'm posting this now instead of 3 years from now.

Ahh, another on search of the Holy Grail of Compliance. The person who I found has the best and most complete understanding of the current ADS-B situation is John Collins over on the Pilots of America site. I also believe he is on an advisory panel to the FAA on the topic. There are a number of posts he created that go into a fairly detailed explanation of the system and the pro/cons.

Beyond that, I have been on this quest for two years and still haven't made a move despite knowing that I would love to have a complete solution to avoid things like this (on the way to Quakertown Fly-in):

The problem is that there are so many different ways you can approach the compliance requirement and unfortunately they are not all encompassing of taking advantage of what you have in the plane or carry with you.

In my particular case, I could add an ES transponder and comply with the "out" requirement. My Garmin portable GDL-39 will pick up full TIS-B traffic to complement the weather I am getting now. I also will get some limited benefits of the TIS-A capability on my GTN (TIS-A coverage is supposed to go away at some point). The disadvantage would be that weather won't show up on my GTN nor on my Aspen MFD.

I could go with a GDL-88 and have full ADS-B "in" and "out" capability. The "in" piece would show up on my GTN but not my Aspen MFD.

I could go with an Aspen ATX ADS-B solution and comply with the "out". The "in" would show up on my Aspen, but not my GTN.

The permutations go on and on. I'm just waiting for the smoke to clear before committing on expensive technology. Any of us who jumped on the LORAN wagon know that story.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rbridges]

your options will depend greatly on what you already have in your panel and what you're willing to upgrade.  If you don't have an approved WAAS GPS, the cheapest option would be the newer boxes that include a WAAS source and ADSB-out.  This gets you compliant but nothing else.  You still need an "in" source such as a Stratus/ipad to get the weather and traffic.  You can also go Marauder's route and spend a small country's GDP and upgrade your panel.  And then there's everything in between. 

 

In my case, I had a 430W and a KT76A transponder.  It appears to be a fairly common combination.  I simply upgraded my transponder to a KT74.  I also use a stratus/ipad to display traffic and weather.

[jezzie]

I am going to install a Garmin 330 mode S TX, and hoping that traffic will show up on either my GTN 750 MFD or my G500 MFD. I am not really clear in my mind what will happen.

I will need another ADSN-In device to have weather for sure. The radio guy gave me a real good price for trade in on my 327 transponder and that is why i made the change.

Here in Canada we are not mandated the 2020 date however I do fly a lot in the US and would like to have what I need to keep the controllers happy.

Any advice and help is appreciated.

[Marauder]

I am going to install a Garmin 330 mode S TX, and hoping that traffic will show up on either my GTN 750 MFD or my G500 MFD. I am not really clear in my mind what will happen.

I will need another ADSN-In device to have weather for sure. The radio guy gave me a real good price for trade in on my 327 transponder and that is why i made the change.

Here in Canada we are not mandated the 2020 date however I do fly a lot in the US and would like to have what I need to keep the controllers happy.

Any advice and help is appreciated.

 

It won't show up on your GTN or G500 MFD. What will show up is the TIS-A if it is available in your area.

 

If you have a portable ADS-B solution you will get TIS-B traffic and the FIS-B weather on the iPad or portable GPS.

[IndyTim]

I've been investigating this mandate and my options for two years. All the vendors tried to scare everyone into making the upgrades early, so as to avoid the hypothetical crush of everyone trying to get into avionics shops at the last minute. Had I acted on that hype cycle, I'd be about $20AMUs poorer right now.

My strategy is to hold - new products are coming out constantly and the prices keep coming down. The kicker for me is that I need WAAS plus Mode S since I only have a 430.

In the meantime, I have replaced Xm weather with ADS-B from a GDL-39 over a Garmin 796. It isn't as good as XM, but for the price it's good enough.

[LANCECASPER]

I've been investigating this mandate and my options for two years. All the vendors tried to scare everyone into making the upgrades early, so as to avoid the hypothetical crush of everyone trying to get into avionics shops at the last minute. Had I acted on that hype cycle, I'd be about $20AMUs poorer right now.

My strategy is to hold - new products are coming out constantly and the prices keep coming down. The kicker for me is that I need WAAS plus Mode S since I only have a 430.

In the meantime, I have replaced Xm weather with ADS-B from a GDL-39 over a Garmin 796. It isn't as good as XM, but for the price it's good enough.

 

I sold a Garmin 530W for $8200, a KT-76C for $900 and paid $13495 for the Avidyne IFD540 and AXP transponder combination, so I was out $4395 there. The two were plug and play with the wiring that I had. My avionics guy installed the wiring for the WAAS position source to the transponder and did all of the paperwork for $500. That took care of ABS-B out. I use the Garmin 796 and the GDL 39-3D that I already had for ADS-B in.

 

The interface on the IFD540 is awesome - huge upgrade over the 1998 interface and resolution on the Garmin 530.

 

I had planned on waiting but having the traffic you get by participating in ADS-B out is well worth it. I could have waited but I would also have missed out on the benefits for the waiting period. I agree that the weather on the ADS-B is adequate and you get NOTAMs which weren't available on XM.

[rob47v]

I hope everyone is clarifying, that it is the ABDS- out, the requirement not the ABDS-in. The in is a nice to have but not required, so WAAS tho great for weather and such isn't a mandatory requirement . Just the out!!! 

[GeorgePerry]

If you have a GTN or GNS in your panel, the GDL-88 with a flight stream 210 is probably your best, most integrated solution.  You get compliant along with TIS-B and FIS-B with the benefit of being able to display traffic and weather on both the GPS and an iPad.

 

If your looking for general information, here's a good course to take from the Air Safety Institute.  It uses flash so take it on a desktop not a portable device.

 

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/ads-b/index.cfm

 

Also if you need to determine what equipment works best for your application try the ADSB Selector Tool

 

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Aircraft-Ownership/Technology/ADS-B

[Bob - S50]

I hope everyone is clarifying, that it is the ABDS- out, the requirement not the ABDS-in. The in is a nice to have but not required, so WAAS tho great for weather and such isn't a mandatory requirement . Just the out!!! 

 

The WAAS is required for the out.

 

Bob

[Bob - S50]

The problem with the GDL88 or any of the UAT solutions is that you are ...adding... something (and weight) to the aircraft.  You still need the mode C or S transponder.

 

If you have a WAAS GPS and a Stratus or GDL39 already, ...replacing... your mode C/S transponder with a KT74 or TT31 you get 1090ES which will be good everywhere and pretty cheaply, especially if you already have the KT76A.

 

I would just as soon see my traffic on the tablet rather than the GTN650 anyway.

 

Our plan is to comply with the mandate about a year before the deadline.  If the KT76A dies before then, I'll try to talk my partners into installing the TT31 at that time.

 

Bob

[wishboneash]

The problem with the GDL88 or any of the UAT solutions is that you are ...adding... something (and weight) to the aircraft.  You still need the mode C or S transponder.

 

If you have a WAAS GPS and a Stratus or GDL39 already, ...replacing... your mode C/S transponder with a KT74 or TT31 you get 1090ES which will be good everywhere and pretty cheaply, especially if you already have the KT76A.

 

I would just as soon see my traffic on the tablet rather than the GTN650 anyway.

 

Our plan is to comply with the mandate about a year before the deadline.  If the KT76A dies before then, I'll try to talk my partners into installing the TT31 at that time.

 

Bob

 

I am not too thrilled with the depiction of traffic on my tablet with Garmin Pilot. The GTN650 depiction is more in your face, with audio annunciation and overrides all other screens. Maybe I have not set up my app correctly, but there are lot of times I am using my tablet for other things so it is not an optimal traffic warning device. It is fine for situational awareness, weather or georerefencing on plates but beyond that IMHO, the tablet is a toy.

 

Also, regarding waiting to get ADS-B out, I am glad I didn't. I fly in very busy airspace (SF Bay area) and I don't how many times I have not seen traffic and the TIS-B has warned me. Even when in IMC there are pilots flying without clearances and popping up through clouds. Maybe ignorance is bliss, but there have been times when I have taken avoidance measures even before ATC has warned me.

[N231BN]

The turbo owners need to remember that you need 1090ES above FL180. The GDL88 is UAT only but it works pretty good as an in/out solution for most guys.

[rob47v]

The WAAS is required for the out.

 

Bob

Absolutely correct the out is on a waas signal. But my point being. That it could be done with just a ABDS out transponder. I'm afraid most folks are going to think, that they are going to need such expensive tho highly wanted as with my self of course, a gps com like the garmin 430's or the new GTN's.    

[Bob - S50]

I am not too thrilled with the depiction of traffic on my tablet with Garmin Pilot. The GTN650 depiction is more in your face, with audio annunciation and overrides all other screens. Maybe I have not set up my app correctly, but there are lot of times I am using my tablet for other things so it is not an optimal traffic warning device. It is fine for situational awareness, weather or georerefencing on plates but beyond that IMHO, the tablet is a toy.

 

Also, regarding waiting to get ADS-B out, I am glad I didn't. I fly in very busy airspace (SF Bay area) and I don't how many times I have not seen traffic and the TIS-B has warned me. Even when in IMC there are pilots flying without clearances and popping up through clouds. Maybe ignorance is bliss, but there have been times when I have taken avoidance measures even before ATC has warned me.

 

If it was up to me I'd have the TT31 installed already but I have to convince 3 other guys to spend the money.  It would be nice to have.  I've flown into San Carlos a couple times and our airport is less than 5 miles from the Seattle Class B surface area.

 

When I'm close enough to somebody who already has ADS-B, I've been pretty happy with the traffic display on Garmin Pilot.

 

Bob

[Bob - S50]

Absolutely correct the out is on a waas signal. But my point being. That it could be done with just a ABDS out transponder. I'm afraid most folks are going to think, that they are going to need such expensive tho highly wanted as with my self of course, a gps com like the garmin 430's or the new GTN's.    

 

I think what you are trying to say is that there are some UAT ADS-B boxes out there that include a GPS WAAS source.  If someone does not have a WAAS GPS, they only need to buy one of those boxes for a few AMU rather than spend a fortune on a fancy pants GPS.  If so, I agree.

 

Bob

[OR75]

I think what you are trying to say is that there are some UAT ADS-B boxes out there that include a GPS WAAS source.  If someone does not have a WAAS GPS, they only need to buy one of those boxes for a few AMU rather than spend a fortune on a fancy pants GPS.  If so, I agree.

 

Bob

It can be an appealing option but still requires the install of a GPS antenna.

If I have WAAS signal in the plane , I might I well get the position displayed somewhere and benefit from VNAV/LNAV approaches

There is no perfect solution

I am connecting a KT-74 to a GNS 430W.

First step was to just slide it in to replace the KT-76A. It works.

Next step is to pull 4 wires: to and from the GNS 430W and two for the Airswitch . I will not change the tray as I do not care for the audio alert. I will get TIS traffic on the 430.

[gsxrpilot]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit. I've got a 530W so the WAAS is already there. I also use/love ForeFlight with Stratus 2.

 

I'm thinking the best option considering price, install cost, weight, additional external antennas, etc. will be to swap my transponder for a Garmin 330ES. I'll continue to get traffic and weather on the iPad via the Stratus 2. I won't add any weight to the panel. I won't add any additional antennas. The install should be straight forward.

 

Now to find a discount on the 330ES.