Make sure to check your nose gear during preflight...

[dtoelke]

This isn't a question but rather a reminder to other owners to check your nose gear before flight if your FBO tows the plane.  Before I bought my M20K I read somewhere that the limited nose gear rotation made it susceptable to over-torquing by powered towing equipment.  So I added it to my list of pre-flight items and made sure to check it often.  I also brought it up to the FBO manager so they were aware.

 

I went to fly the plane yesterday and while checking the gear noticed one of the turn stops was broken off.  So I retraced the tow path and sure enough found the busted part on the tarmac.  Fortunately, the staff quickly admitted the fault and the FBO will be covering the repairs.

 

I bring this up because, had I missed this on the pre-flight, odds are the FBO would have plausible deniability and refused to cover the repair.  Just another one of many reasons to perform a proper pre-flight.

[1964-M20E]

Wow actually broke the stop off they had to be trying to turn it 90 degrees.  Hopefully at the bare minimum the guilty lineman and all others will get educated about turning radius.  Sorry to hear about that but glad you caught it and the responsible party will cover the damage.

[rbridges]

I ask every time I land at a different airport.  The line guys say they hear that all the time from mooney owners, but they don't mind.  Anyone that works around planes realizes what an expensive problem over turning a mooney can be, and it just takes one guy to do it.  I'm sure the OP's FBO is about to learn first hand.  Nonetheless, I look under the nose wheel every time someone has towed it.

[dtoelke]

Wow actually broke the stop off they had to be trying to turn it 90 degrees.  Hopefully at the bare minimum the guilty lineman and all others will get educated about turning radius.  Sorry to hear about that but glad you caught it and the responsible party will cover the damage.

 

Actually the M20K has stops at the 15 deg angle.  Very easy to bump against while towing.

[jlunseth]

It is always a concern.  Fortunately my home FBO has a tug that lifts the nose wheel, so their line kids are never going to be able to do that.

 

You have to watch them though.  My favorite is having a new line guy fill the M20K tanks that have anti-siphon valves.  There may be fuel up to the top of the neck, but only a half tank of fuel in the wing. 

 

I have had just two problems with line personnel.  One was a guy in Kalispell who told me to put my parking brakes ON and then proceeded to tow the plane.  The other was a line kid who somehow was able to connect a 28V charger to my 14 volt 231 that has the exterior plug port.  When I came out I wondered why water was coming out of the underside of the plane.  He was boiling the battery.  Fortunately the master was off.

[warrennn]

I had the 28 V charger on my 231 (for a jump start) and heard the gurgling and noticed that the starter spun very quickly! I shut down immediately after smelling the acid. The FBO took full responsibility and washed out the acid -- fortunately, nothing was damaged (the master was on, of course). I suppose the avionics are made for a large range of voltages.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Warrennn.

Really modern Mooneys have taken an extra step to avoid the power tow bending problem...

There is a hole drilled in the manual tow bar. Insert the tow bar and lock it in place...

Not that gallant, but...

Best regards,

-a-

[usphsfnp]

Do the tugs that pull the nosewheel up on a platform with a strap also cause the oversteering of the nosewheel- or is it only the tugs that insert a tow bar into the gear that cause the oversteer?

I was thinking about ways to prevent this from happening at FBOs away from home... I've heard of the PVC pipe with a padlock- and I like that one.  What about something super obvious, like a foam pool noodle stuffed behind the truss to prevent the metal-to-metal impact?

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, USP,

Bad: Over rotation of the steering structure causes one tube to interfere with another.

Good: It is challenging to manually cause destructive force with this interference.

Existing devices:

- Locking in the manual tow bar allows some towing.

- Locking out the tow hole may cause more 'creative' issues.

- Really high tech towing devices lift the front wheel AND don't over-rotate the structure.

The issue is difficult to see and/or understand for most people.

Potential solutions would involve reducing the force at the point of contact between the tubes. Or increasing the surface area to being larger than a point of contact. Foam or rubber could be a logical part of the solution...

Putting a piece of foam in there sounds like a nice idea. Balance that with how much space is absorbed and how much force is distributed. The turning radius of a Mooney is large. Putting in something that takes space will increase that radius. A new challenge becomes covering that area, making visual inspection a challenge.

The O has an indicator to define the towing limits. It reliably tells the story to an individual that is supplying the force. It is too difficult to tell the story to a person that is further away at the front of a tractor. They don't see what is going on behind them. They can't feel the stress they are causing in the tubes.

Testing home-made solutions has another challenge. It is expensive to find that the solution doesn't work as expected.

There is probably a good solution, not far away...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Welcome aboard, USP,

Bad: Over rotation of the steering structure causes one tube to interfere with another.

Good: It is challenging to manually cause destructive force with this interference.

Existing devices:

- Locking in the manual tow bar allows some towing.

- Locking out the tow hole may cause more 'creative' issues.

- Really high tech towing devices lift the front wheel AND don't over-rotate the structure.

The issue is difficult to see and/or understand for most people.

Potential solutions would involve reducing the force at the point of contact between the tubes. Or increasing the surface area to being larger than a point of contact. Foam or rubber could be a logical part of the solution...

Putting a piece of foam in there sounds like a nice idea. Balance that with how much space is absorbed and how much force is distributed. The turning radius of a Mooney is large. Putting in something that takes space will increase that radius. A new challenge becomes covering that area, making visual inspection a challenge.

The O has an indicator to define the towing limits. It reliably tells the story to an individual that is supplying the force. It is too difficult to tell the story to a person that is further away at the front of a tractor. They don't see what is going on behind them. They can't feel the stress they are causing in the tubes.

Testing home-made solutions has another challenge. It is expensive to find that the solution doesn't work as expected.

There is probably a good solution, not far away...

Best regards,

-a-

Wow Anthony! That answer looked like a dissertation for your PhD in Towolgy.

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[Marauder]

Do the tugs that pull the nosewheel up on a platform with a strap also cause the oversteering of the nosewheel- or is it only the tugs that insert a tow bar into the gear that cause the oversteer?

I was thinking about ways to prevent this from happening at FBOs away from home... I've heard of the PVC pipe with a padlock- and I like that one. What about something super obvious, like a foam pool noodle stuffed behind the truss to prevent the metal-to-metal impact?

In normal owner language;

- tugs that elevate the front wheel won't rotate it and should be fine (at least the ones I have seen used)

- the damage is caused by rotating the nose wheel too far. If they can put a tow bar on the nose wheel, they have the potential to turn it too far. This goes for the tow bars that slide into the opening or those that clamp on the holes.

- some owners have used a lock-out to prevent putting a tow bar on them. Anthony's point is that they may try some other way to move it.

- the foam approach will probably not do anything. Not sure if anyone has tried it.

If I leave my plane at an FBO, I clearly ask where I can park the plane so that it doesn't get moved all the whole time I am there. I also use a laminated card I attached to the nose wheel stating "Do Not Tow, call XXX-XXX-XXXX if you need to move this plane". -- I did that after an FBO damaged a truss.

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[anthonydesmet]

Just a thought....how about a removable flag/placard (similar to pitot tube flag and intake plug flags) that slides in the mechanical tow hole and says something like "warning, when towing keep nose wheel between red marks".  And has to be removed by the line crew prior to connecting to a manual tow bar?   

 

p.s....Trademark..all rights reserved...blah blah blah...just kidding.....

[PTK]

How about a making a jig that goes on the nose gear only allowing limited turning arc protecting truss?

It would lock and can only be removed with key.

[DonMuncy]

My hangar elf designed a system to set off an alarm when the tow limit is reached. It does not prevent it from happening, and likely not loud enough to alert a lineman on a motorized tug. But it also locks on an small alarm in the cabin. When you get back to the plane, and the alarm is sounding, you know to check for truss damage and have the ability to notify the FBO on the spot. If you are super diligent, you can do the same thing by checking EVERY TIME you preflight your plane. Do you know anyone who does this.

[N601RX]

Norm wrote an article a long time ago about taping a pack of ketchup on each side of the truss.  Turn it to for and it bust, leaving a trail of evidence for you to see when you return.

[carusoam]

Chris,

My tug project is proceeding on thesis time. The time for completion is now measured in semesters.

My CB nature keeps me from purchasing any of those fine devices.

Best regards,

-a-

[22 others]

Mooney has a kit to install a towing limits indicator:  http://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/sbm20-151.pdf

 

I have to duck down really low to see it though.  My C has it, but I'm missing the bright red sticker that says "Warning Do Not Exceed Towing Limits." Might have to take a trip to the sign shop...

 

 

It would be nice to have a cover that has to be removed to tow, but can be left in place during flight. Two red plastic caps held on the ends with a bungee might do it.

[DXB]

Mooney has a kit to install a towing limits indicator:  http://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/sbm20-151.pdf

 

I have to duck down really low to see it though.  My C has it, but I'm missing the bright red sticker that says "Warning Do Not Exceed Towing Limits." Might have to take a trip to the sign shop...

 

 

It would be nice to have a cover that has to be removed to tow, but can be left in place during flight. Two red plastic caps held on the ends with a bungee might do it.

Yup my '68 C had the indicator installed at some point, but not sure it does much good- it's pretty subtle. Interestingly, per the document, it appears that my C model (SN 680002) was the very last C to leave the factory without one. I need the sticker too if anyone comes up with one.  I guess could get off my lazy ass and make one as well.   I try to tell the line guys at any FBO away from home to be careful about this, but I'm not sure I ever get through.  What specifically do other people say at FBOs when they park the plane on an unfamiliar ramp for a couple of days?

[DXB]

In normal owner language;

- tugs that elevate the front wheel won't rotate it and should be fine (at least the ones I have seen used)

- the damage is caused by rotating the nose wheel too far. If they can put a tow bar on the nose wheel, they have the potential to turn it too far. This goes for the tow bars that slide into the opening or those that clamp on the holes.

- some owners have used a lock-out to prevent putting a tow bar on them. Anthony's point is that they may try some other way to move it.

- the foam approach will probably not do anything. Not sure if anyone has tried it.

If I leave my plane at an FBO, I clearly ask where I can park the plane so that it doesn't get moved all the whole time I am there. I also use a laminated card I attached to the nose wheel stating "Do Not Tow, call XXX-XXX-XXXX if you need to move this plane". -- I did that after an FBO damaged a truss.

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That is an answer to my question above that I shall have to consider...

[201guy]

I always check the nose gear when I arrive at an FBO that will be moving our plane.  I also check it when I preflight the plane. We had an FBO over turn our nose gear and damage it. We had to sue them and we won the judgement.

[Stephen]

FBO just hosed mine.... had been on there both 2 months replaced for the last FBO that hosed mine. I am putting a "DO NOT TOW" sticker on it. SUUUPER frustrating. 

[neilpilot]

9 minutes ago, Stephen said:

FBO just hosed mine.... had been on there both 2 months replaced for the last FBO that hosed mine. I am putting a "DO NOT TOW" sticker on it. SUUUPER frustrating. 

I'm assuming that they attached a tow bar to your nose gear.  I'm of the opinion that if the FBO uses a cradle that the tire rests on, one that lifts the entire front end, damage to the steering strut isn't an issue.  Can a more knowledgeable MSer please confirm if this is indeed the case.

Stephen - Consider a lock or locking cable thru the nose gear tow bar barrel as a more positive prevention of damage.  For the line crew that hasn't yet learned how to read...

[EricJ]

6 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

I'm assuming that they attached a tow bar to your nose gear.  I'm of the opinion that if the FBO uses a cradle that the tire rests on, one that lifts the entire front end, damage to the steering strut isn't an issue.  Can a more knowledgeable MSer please confirm if this is indeed the case.

Stephen - Consider a lock or locking cable thru the nose gear tow bar barrel as a more positive prevention of damage.  For the line crew that hasn't yet learned how to read...

Those cradle tugs can still over-deflect the nose wheel.   Consider that how the tug grips the gear isn't the issue, it's how much it turns it.

The avionics shop that worked on my airplane has one of those cradle tugs, and I reminded the guy about the turning limitation on Mooneys.   He said, "All airplanes have turning limitations."    I took that to mean that he always pays attention because you can break almost any of them, and he was pretty careful with it.   I think it's just when the occasional klutz gets tug duty or somebody just makes a mistake that the problems happen.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Those cradle tugs can still over-deflect the nose wheel.   Consider that how the tug grips the gear isn't the issue, it's how much it turns it.

The avionics shop that worked on my airplane has one of those cradle tugs, and I reminded the guy about the turning limitation on Mooneys.   He said, "All airplanes have turning limitations."    I took that to mean that he always pays attention because you can break almost any of them, and he was pretty careful with it.   I think it's just when the occasional klutz gets tug duty or somebody just makes a mistake that the problems happen.

I imagine it's especially likely when somebody tries to push with the tug instead of pull, seems like it would be easy to jackknife the gear if you're not good at reversing with a trailer...

[David Lloyd]

Importance of checking every time on the preflight:  Back before the internet, I did not check my nose gear on a regular basis.  One day I checked and found the trunnion dented from exceeding the turning limitation.  I could narrow the damage occurring to two FBOs.  No hull insurance, I was on the hook for repairs.