Mid-air drone strike

[FloridaMan]

Pilotless planes perform differently when control is handed off to a well trained pilot. See: Airbus incidents.

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[bonal]

Pilotless planes perform differently when control is handed off to a well trained pilot. See: Airbus incidents.

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Very true but the future is just about to become self aware and things will be very different indeed. They are already testing driverless cars on the roads here in CA.

[slowflyin]

Over half a million hobbyist drones flying----most responsibly.   I'm more concerned about the buzzards.  As pilots we are for the most part an independent, self regulating bunch of folks that in general is constantly complaining about the FAA and over regulation.   Seems like we might think "Big Brother" is the go to solution for other people just not us.   Hmmmmmm.    I've said this before, why don't we advocate recruiting these pilots (wanna be or not) into the fold.  Isn't it true through self regulation and education we have done more for aviation safety than government regulation.   Almost weekly we chime in regarding some pilot who did something stupid.  I never here us advocating the FAA should write more regs.   I think we understand Irresponsible people do not care about laws.  Idiots flying drones in the approach path of your local airport are already breaking the law.   More, redundant laws will not fix the problem.   The fool operating his toy at the altitude that caused the incident under discussion is already liable.   I agree this was a serious event.  I just don't have any faith my government can protect me from a similar fate.  I'd much rather invite the local drone club to the next pilot meeting of my choice.  EAA, AOPA, Glider club.........

 

Adding a half a million members to AOPA couldn't hurt?  

 

Full discloser- I own an unmanned systems company.  Not hobbyist grade.  See my previous post for details.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Some of these drones fly autonomous on preprogramed routes using GPS. Realtors and surveyors use them to take pictures of the area. Most send their GPS location back to the controller in a vehicle which is plotted on a map. This helps in locating the drone if it fails to return. I heard of three drone owners using the ATD-300 to asses traffic (mostly helicopters) in the area. The drones usually fly below 1,000ft and within 2nm of the operator.José

Company wants to use a small drone (foam <5lbs) single engine delta wing to enhance their aerial crop services. The drone is GPS controlled. Flies at a specific altitude (under 300') over the field. Gives great insight into the crop condition in addition to taking/analyzing soil core samples. (primary mission of company done manually by accessing fields on ATV's) It appears to be very well controlled PROPER use of a UAV.

Pretty cool...

It is light. I would much prefer it striking my plane to a hawk or larger bird. The operator would want to avoid a collision as they have a lot of $ wrapped up in their hardware.

Same stupid kids* that do the lasers at planes/rotary are the problem. They won't be coming to any meetings...They also go to golf courses to drink and ride in carts. They are awesome...or not. They are not going away.

*kids does not define the age. Would prefer thugs or hooligans, but they are now "bad words" and this forum is viewed by "kids" in the classic sense. Don't be a "kid" kids....

[slowflyin]

The Government will not solve this..  we need outreach.   I've copy and pasted my previous post on this issue.

 

Over half a million hobbyist drones flying----most responsibly.   I'm more concerned about the buzzards.  As pilots we are for the most part an independent, self regulating bunch of folks that in general is constantly complaining about the FAA and over regulation.   Seems like we might think "Big Brother" is the go to solution for other people just not us.   Hmmmmmm.    I've said this before, why don't we advocate recruiting these pilots (wanna be or not) into the fold.  Isn't it true through self regulation and education we have done more for aviation safety than government regulation.   Almost weekly we chime in regarding some pilot who did something stupid.  I never hear us advocating the FAA should write more regs.   I think we understand Irresponsible people do not care about laws.  Idiots flying drones in the approach path of your local airport are already breaking the law.   More, redundant laws will not fix the problem.   The fool operating his toy at the altitude that caused the incident under discussion is already liable.   I agree this was a serious event.  I just don't have any faith my government can protect me from a similar fate.  I'd much rather invite the local drone club to the next pilot meeting of my choice.  EAA, AOPA, Glider club.........

 

Adding a half a million members to AOPA couldn't hurt?  

 

Full discloser- I own an unmanned systems company.  Not hobbyist grade.  See my previous post for details.

[Seth]

A pilot from my home field had a drone strike in his plane day before yesterday. The drone hit the prop on the right side of the cowling and pieces impacted into the cowling and windshield. Minor damage initially assessed but more evaluation is pending. The pilot landed uneventfully (except for the underwear problem). The impact occurred at an altitude of 4800' MSL which was about 4000' AGL. The FAA from Washington are directly involved and are investigating the event.

Whoever believes all drone operators can or will fly them responsibly are complete idiots! We must all be aware of this growing hazard.

What type of aircraft was the pilot from your home field operating at the time of the collision?

 

-Seth

[DonMuncy]

Slowflyin,

I agree that most drone operators are responsible. But I also suspect that the ones who belong to organized groups are also more likely to be responsible. My opinion (as poorly based as it is) is that the problems are most likely caused by the independent or individuals who just decide to "get a drone" and play with it". If that is the case, there is no way to "include" them into the responsible groups. It also appears that, like the guys who point lasers at planes, it is virtually impossible to catch or deter them individually.

As much as we dislike governmental intrusion, I think this is an area that must be addressed by governmental action.

Can you imagine what would happen if the FAA stopped all aircraft regulation of any kind. Most of us would continue to act responsibly, but I would bet almost any amount of money that some idiots out there would get their hands on a plane and fly through the middle of the flight pattern of large airports.

[Seth]

Wow!  This is inevitable. On a local level, I see a great concern. Between KSQL (San Carlos Airport) , and KPAO (Palo Alto Airport), and then south of Palo Alto Airport, there are semi-marsh open areas where it would be temping to fly, or learn to fly drones. The area is full of nerds, early innovators, tech savvy youngsters, and a fairly affluent population who can afford the larger, heavier, and more expensive drones (UAVs, or whatever you want to call them). I've seen the damage that a flock of birds can do to a Cessna 172 that was landing at KSQL. The pilot was lucky to be able to slip her in so that he could see the runway, as the windshield was covered in blood and feathers so there was no forward vision. The leading edges of the wings were crushed in places, and these were just a (dense) flock of small birds. Just imagine what a 50 pound drone (49.95 pounds to meet the current regulation) could do to one of our aircraft in cruise flight. And if that "accidental - it got away from me" scenario isn't bad enough, think about what a malicious person could do by deliberately flying a drone into a landing or taking off aircraft. You don't have to be a terrorist to be crazy, or irresponsible. Some of these larger drones are no more that $1000 or so, and they actually could become a terrorist tool. As much as I don't like overregulation, this is an area where either drone registration, and mandatory licensing may be necessary, or that all drones sold in the US must have some sort of TCAS/TCAD like collision avoidance system built in.

50 pounds!  Odd story but I had two 10 lbs weights drop off a pickup truck in front of me in traffic, break into four 5 pound bouncing betty's and come after my car.  I deftly avoided three of them with the fourth embedded in my radiator (insurance didn't quite understand the claim, as I was on a highway and ended up with half a ten pound weight lodged in my radiator). Somehow my deductible did not go up for the thousands of dollars of repair.

 

If 5 pounds could put a close to four thousand pound car out of commission, what would 50 pounds do to a 2900-3200 pound vehicle at gross, probably operating closer to 2500-2700 pounds?

 

That's .12% weight of the weights into the car at 60 mph

 

For a 50 pound block into an average of 2900 lbs, that's 1.7% weight at with our Mooneys, at least 130 knots.

 

Not to get too exciting, but I see the potential for real issues.  

 

The problem, is that the legislation you bet is going to hurt GA too.

 

-Seth

[Piloto]

My only gas driven model plane had two wires for pitch control. Which flew in circles around me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4rqILAs_xo.

A real Fly by Wire plane.

 

José

[Conrad]

If one thing's for sure it's that most of the all-encompassing regulatory solutions are not feasible. A quadcopter doesn't need to have a single part which is explicitly designed for drone usage except perhaps the software, which is open source. That rules out serial numbers and requiring everyone to have coded-in limits to altitude or location.

[Tom]

Meanwhile, I can't install a portable WAAS equipped ASB-out unit, a non-TSO'd JPI secondary engine monitor, or non-TSO'd high lumen LEDs as these are all threats to the public while attached to standard category certified aircraft.

[bonal]

My only gas driven model plane had two wires for pitch control. Which flew in circles around me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4rqILAs_xo.

A real Fly by Wire plane.

 

José

 

Had to go check it out. My first operational aircraft was an F4U corsair with the Cox 049 and 2 control wires.  first time flying it went straight up I had to run for my life as it crashed landed right on the center spot where I was standing.  so maybe that was my worst landing ever. 

 

the problem with these new drones is they require no skill to fly.  I remember the original jet ski it took a bit of skill and practice to operate well, as such the market was rather limited (sound familiar) then they made the personal water craft that any stupid drunk person could operate and the real problems began. Radio control and string flight takes real skill and the learning process creates (hopefully) a more knowledgeable operator with regards to safety etc. Oh look we can fly our drones into fire areas and get some cool video for U tube or hey I know this will  go viral lets fly near some airliners and get some cool air to air videos for our U tube.  Remember we are the dinosaurs in this equation

[cnoe]

If anyone has details on this please PM me.  AOPA Safety and our Government Affairs department are very interested in learning about the details.  

 

Did this incident really happen or not? If so, why aren't we hearing about it?

 

AOPA's Aviation eBrief linked a story today from the Washington Post stating "No incident has resulted in a midair collision. But in dozens of cases, pilots reported that drones flew within 500 feet of their aircraft, so close that they usually had no time to react."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/faa-records-detail-hundreds-of-close-calls-between-airplanes-and-drones/2015/08/20/5ef812ae-4737-11e5-846d-02792f854297_story.html

 

We at least have a right to know the extent of the problem.

[helitim]

CNOE,

This incident did in fact occur. The damage to his plane was quite real. Why you are not hearing more about this and others like it makes me highly suspicious of our regulatory agencies that should be monitoring and regulating these types of activities. I am convinced the lobbyist and industry butt kissers are doing everything they can to bury these incidents. Until there is a large loss of life that is directly attributable and irrefutable, nothing will change. When this occurs, people will scream to high heaven about why these "dangerous" drones weren't already under government control. A new committee will be created to investigate and an entire new regulatory body will of course need to be created at a federal level because states can't be trusted to regulate themselves.

It just pains me at the ignorance of the operators that are unnecessarily causing an issue that simply should not be happening.

Tim

[helitim]

Additionally, I did in fact PM with George Perry the information about this incident. He spoke with the A&P IA and pilot involved with this event. For whatever reason, George has not elected to report any additional information back to this forum. When the time comes and they have enough information, I am hopeful he will follow up with all of us.

Tim

[mike_elliott]

Over half a million hobbyist drones flying----most responsibly.   I'm more concerned about the buzzards.  As pilots we are for the most part an independent, self regulating bunch of folks that in general is constantly complaining about the FAA and over regulation.   Seems like we might think "Big Brother" is the go to solution for other people just not us.   Hmmmmmm.    I've said this before, why don't we advocate recruiting these pilots (wanna be or not) into the fold.  Isn't it true through self regulation and education we have done more for aviation safety than government regulation.   Almost weekly we chime in regarding some pilot who did something stupid.  I never here us advocating the FAA should write more regs.   I think we understand Irresponsible people do not care about laws.  Idiots flying drones in the approach path of your local airport are already breaking the law.   More, redundant laws will not fix the problem.   The fool operating his toy at the altitude that caused the incident under discussion is already liable.   I agree this was a serious event.  I just don't have any faith my government can protect me from a similar fate.  I'd much rather invite the local drone club to the next pilot meeting of my choice.  EAA, AOPA, Glider club.........

 

Adding a half a million members to AOPA couldn't hurt?  

 

Full discloser- I own an unmanned systems company.  Not hobbyist grade.  See my previous post for details 

Would it be cool if the unmanned systems companies would promote their clients to get a PPL by some incentives along with the Pilot community reaching out to them? Perhaps the impending Jihad could be avoided

[wishboneash]

Additionally, I did in fact PM with George Perry the information about this incident. He spoke with the A&P IA and pilot involved with this event. For whatever reason, George has not elected to report any additional information back to this forum. When the time comes and they have enough information, I am hopeful he will follow up with all of us.

Tim

 

Looks like drone incidents are getting some attention now.

 

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/August/27/Drone-reports-detailed?WT.mc_id=150828epilot&WT.mc_sect=tts

 

I hope the LVK incident is publicised widely once investigated. Did the pilot affected take pictures of the damage?

[helitim]

Sriram,

If you want to know more, ask Steve R.

Tim

[DaV8or]

Boeing is working on the solution to this problem-

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/welcome-world-drone-killing-laser-cannon/

 

They successfully shot down a R/C plane with it.

 

https://youtu.be/Ijp3-zjTIp0

[cnoe]

Can that be mounted under my wing?

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[slowflyin]

Would it be cool if the unmanned systems companies would promote their clients to get a PPL by some incentives along with the Pilot community reaching out to them? Perhaps the impending Jihad could be avoided

Current Regs require Second Class Medical, PPL and an FAA Certificate of Authorization with 5 nm of an airport for any UAS ops.  Great idea pulling them into the fold. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Company I work for is in pursuit of commercial use of Drones to inspect commercial building roofs. They are using me, a licensed pilot, to secure waiver for drone use.

[cnoe]

FYI, we just finished the "Boeing Laser" installation on my J. Turns out that it disrupted laminar flow too much with an under-wing mounting so we had to place it on top of the fuselage. I have to say that it blends nicely with my old-school paint scheme.

 

We're still waiting on the 337 approval to come back but I took it around the pattern a time or two and managed to bag a couple of nice geese from about 1/2 mile away. Can't wait to see a dang drone.

 

[mike_elliott]

FYI, we just finished the "Boeing Laser" installation on my J. Turns out that it disrupted laminar flow too much with an under-wing mounting so we had to place it on top of the fuselage. I have to say that it blends nicely with my old-school paint scheme.

 

We're still waiting on the 337 approval to come back but I took it around the pattern a time or two and managed to bag a couple of nice geese from about 1/2 mile away. Can't wait to see a dang drone.

Way to expensive...get yourself a falcon. This is what our symbol of freedom has to say about drones 

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/13/eagle-attacking-drone-mid-air-animals-averse-uavs?CMP=ema_565

[cnoe]

Love that video! Thanks for posting.

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