helitim Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 A pilot from my home field had a drone strike in his plane day before yesterday. The drone hit the prop on the right side of the cowling and pieces impacted into the cowling and windshield. Minor damage initially assessed but more evaluation is pending. The pilot landed uneventfully (except for the underwear problem). The impact occurred at an altitude of 4800' MSL which was about 4000' AGL. The FAA from Washington are directly involved and are investigating the event. Whoever believes all drone operators can or will fly them responsibly are complete idiots! We must all be aware of this growing hazard. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Wow... What's the maximum range of these things? I didn't think the transmitter was strong enough to control it that far away... Maybe it wasn't and it went rouge. Unlike back in the day with RC planes that crash when you loose radio contact, these seem to just hover waiting the next command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMan Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Drones need to be regulated and classified by weight. DJI does what all manufacturers should be doing (limiting altitude, airspace and airport proximity by GPS). For exceptions or heavier craft, the operators should have more training and more to lose for irresponsible operations and the craft should have rugged identification attached as well as transponders in some cases. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Wow! Â This is inevitable. On a local level, I see a great concern. Between KSQL (San Carlos Airport) , and KPAO (Palo Alto Airport), and then south of Palo Alto Airport, there are semi-marsh open areas where it would be temping to fly, or learn to fly drones. The area is full of nerds, early innovators, tech savvy youngsters, and a fairly affluent population who can afford the larger, heavier, and more expensive drones (UAVs, or whatever you want to call them). I've seen the damage that a flock of birds can do to a Cessna 172 that was landing at KSQL. The pilot was lucky to be able to slip her in so that he could see the runway, as the windshield was covered in blood and feathers so there was no forward vision. The leading edges of the wings were crushed in places, and these were just a (dense) flock of small birds. Just imagine what a 50 pound drone (49.95 pounds to meet the current regulation) could do to one of our aircraft in cruise flight. And if that "accidental - it got away from me" scenario isn't bad enough, think about what a malicious person could do by deliberately flying a drone into a landing or taking off aircraft. You don't have to be a terrorist to be crazy, or irresponsible. Some of these larger drones are no more that $1000 or so, and they actually could become a terrorist tool. As much as I don't like overregulation, this is an area where either drone registration, and mandatory licensing may be necessary, or that all drones sold in the US must have some sort of TCAS/TCAD like collision avoidance system built in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I still don't know what I saw fly under the Cessna that day in Alabama at 5000' headed eastbound. But it wasn't a bird and it was fast moving. Not cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 ...and we thought LASER pointers were bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Some of these are autonomous and some have cameras with two way link, so the "controller" (not sure if you are a pilot in this case) does not need to have visual on them. I hope these don't get lumped in with the RC planes, helicopters and even quads that many of us still enjoy flying responsibly. In the old days it was difficult to fly an RC aircraft and folks tended to gravitate to AMA affiliated clubs where they learned the responsible way to fly them. Most of the drones we see on TV have stabilization systems making it easy for the average person to fly them without support from more experienced folks. They don't appreciate what goes into the freedom to fly them and thus aren't as responsible. Many RC clubs work hard to maintain their fields, working hard to minimize noise impact and havie designated fly and no fly zones and times. It is a shame that a few are going to ruin it for the many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I was on final at Marion County last weekend and there was a RC airplane doing loops less than a quarter mile from the runway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Sounds like they need to regulate the people making them. Require the person building them to limit altitude, etc. Because, as we know, the operators think UAV's are just toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Drones need to be regulated and classified by weight. DJI does what all manufacturers should be doing (limiting altitude, airspace and airport proximity by GPS). For exceptions or heavier craft, the operators should have more training and more to lose for irresponsible operations and the craft should have rugged identification attached as well as transponders in some cases. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk   The genie is out of the bottle. Do you think for a minute that a 15 year old with his new Johnny Astro drone copter is going to adhere to FAA regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 A kid I work with is a bit of a mad scientist. He built a quad copter that could kill you. It had 16 inch diameter rotor blades that were sharp as razors. Each motor could produce over 4 horsepower! That is like 4 upside down lawn mowers. One day he comes into work and shows me a video of his quad captor loosing control at 5000 ft! It was tumbling until it recovered itself at about 2500 ft. I spent the next half hour lecturing him about how stupid he is. I made him promise to never fly above 400 ft. And to delete the video. I told him he lives less then a mile from an active airport. He said he looked for planes..... The point is anybody can build a monster like that and fly it in the airspace system. I firmly believe that every operator should be licensed. The test doesn't have to be to tough just enough so that they understand a bit about airspace, the possible consequences of breaking the rules and what the rules are. (If the FAA will ever publish them). There should be heavy fines for operating without a license and if you break the rules with a license, you can't plead ignorance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Pictures? After the above story, I don't want to rat him out. I believe he has learned his lesson and is no longer a menace to aviation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Google is working in super cheap adsb. I think they can do full in and out with commodity hardware for fifty bucks in the next year or so. There was an avweb article explaining how a do it yourselfer can build one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Surprised some ID10T hasn't landed one on the White House lawn or a similar restricted place yet? That happened a month or so ago . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Google is working in super cheap adsb. I think they can do full in and out with commodity hardware for fifty bucks in the next year or so. There was an avweb article explaining how a do it yourselfer can build one. Â Seems to me that a chip could be incorporated to send out an ADS-B signal on the cheap (but not sure about the amps it would require). Just look at how cheap embedded GPS receivers are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Some of these drones fly autonomous on preprogramed routes using GPS. Realtors and surveyors use them to take pictures of the area. Most send their GPS location back to the controller in a vehicle which is plotted on a map. This helps in locating the drone if it fails to return. I heard of three drone owners using the ATD-300 to asses traffic (mostly helicopters) in the area. The drones usually fly below 1,000ft and within 2nm of the operator. José 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 When I wrote about what I perceived to be a potential local problem here in Silicon Valley - the open areas between San Carlos Airport and Palo Alto Airport, I didn't know that several Drones had already been spotted in that area, and reported to the respective towers. At a pilot's association meeting this evening, I asked the airport manager if he knew of any drone incursions into the San Carlos airspace, at which point he talked about recent drone spotting. All they can do is report the sightings to the FAA. I asked about which other agencies might respond and catch the drone operators, but all I got were vague answers. The standard instruction from the San Carlos tower when coming up from the south to runway 30 is "report a three mile final" this will put you directly over one of the areas where drones have been seen. The traffic pattern altitude at San Carlos is 800', and at 3 miles out, many aircraft are in their descent, and may be at less than 500-600'. - well within range of most drones. Expect that it won't be long until there will be a collision between a GA aircraft and a drone here. And Surf Air flys many turbocharged aircraft in and out of San Carlos on an ever increasing schedule. There are about 150,000 operations annually at KSQL, and it is just a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Some of these drones fly autonomous on preprogramed routes using GPS. Realtors and surveyors use them to take pictures of the area. Most send their GPS location back to the controller in a vehicle which is plotted on a map. This helps in locating the drone if it fails to return. I heard of three drone owners using the ATD-300 to asses traffic (mostly helicopters) in the area. The drones usually fly below 1,000ft and within 2nm of the operator.José I gave the mad scientist kid at work a challenge six months ago to launch his quad copter from the back parking lot fly around the building autonomously and land back in the back parking lot. I'm still waiting.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyDave Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I think there should be stiff penalties similar to laser pointer incidents (if you can find the user). Let a couple of people go to jail and see what effect that has on the use of drones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 How about requiring all drones to have a unique serial number and requiring anyone who sells a drone to register that serial number with the FAA? The name and address of the buyer would have to be verified with picture ID and the information included in the registration. If any drone is involved in an incident such as the one mentioned at the start of this thread, and enough of the serial number can be located to identify the owner, it could be used to bring criminal and civil charges. If the owner sells their drone, they would have to notify the FAA who the new owner was or still be held responsible.  Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I was at MIT yesterday with my son - school shopping - he wants to do aeronautical engineering. We had an interesting conversation on this very topic. Ironically, the operators who follow the rules - like researchers at MIT - would have no problem putting an ADSB transponder on their aircraft. The general discussion is that within 10 years the airspace will be entirely redefined, including for airplanes.  My son has 3 or 4 "drones". The biggest is a foam airplane with two small electric motors. It has a 2' wingspan but probably weights 0.25lb. BTW it has an autopilot with a straight and level button capable of correcting any upset - I wish my airplane had that autopilot. All for $200. Including airplane, AP, ready to fly with radios. My son is well respecting of the below 400ft by the way. He also has a small quadcopter, and another tiny quadcopter. The tiny one is only a little bigger than your thumb. It is amazingly small - but if he were so inclined, he could fly it as high as he could still see it. I think there needs to be drone regulation of some kind, but there should be a threshold size where we stop calling them drones - and start calling them toys. How big? I don't know. 2oz seems like a toy to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVIDWH Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Those contraptions are more dangerous than downwash from chop chops .  Be prepared for more!  The FAA will never be able to regulate what can be assembled over the week-end in a garage.  Guess they should stick with ADSB.  Correction, I don't know what they should be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePerry Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 If anyone has details on this please PM me.  AOPA Safety and our Government Affairs department are very interested in learning about the details.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 This was bound to happen sooner or later, how far from KLVK did it happen? as for the subject of drone strikes it comes down to airspace control and we should all be prepared. Who do you think the FAA is going to side with a bunch of GA pilots that have a legitimate concern or a bunch of multi billion dollar companies that want access. As far as I know the airline industry don't want us up there as it is. There is another thread about Google ADSB solution and the future is driverless cars pilotless airliners etc. how do you think my old Mooney will fit into this future that is just about to become a reality. We my friends are the dinosaurs in this equation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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