Filing and flying IFR without a ticket to ride

[HRM]

So, to continue with supplementing my education in IFR, I have been reading Pilot error: Anatomies of aircraft accidents by the Editors of Flying Magazine, after a suggestion posted here and I have found it riveting. Then yesterday, during the course of conversation on an unrelated topic, one of the people that works for me mentioned something about knowing a pilot that was killed in a crash. He didn't have much data on the accident, but I was able to drill down through the NTSB database and located the incident. What I found was somewhat shocking, but eerily coincident with a question that I was thinking about posting here for comment. Coincidentally, there is a recent thread about logging IFR proficiency that I found interesting as well.

 

For background, here is the operative excerpt from the report:

 

An operations staff member at JAS stated that it seemed to be common knowledge among airport personnel (staff, airplane owners, and other pilots) that although the pilot was not instrument rated, he frequently filed instrument flight plans, and operated in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). The operations staff member had heard other pilots complain about the pilot's flying habits in the vicinity of JAS, and in particular when IMC existed at JAS. The investigation was unable to obtain additional details regarding those observations.

 

It occurred to me that any pilot might simply file an IFR FP, TO into IMC, fly wherever, execute an approach, land and go on his merry way. How would the FAA know that he was not instrument rated? Then I thought, wait, surely they check the pilot name on the FP against the airman DB, no? Apparently not.

 

As an aside, and of course we don't know exactly what happened, but it appears that IMC took out this man, his wife and his 9 YO son.

 

 

[Openwheeler3]

I think, generally, there are too many things going on in this country of 300 million for the government to track everything. In many cases, the government still assumes that people act in good faith. There is just not enough money to track everything. Don't tell that to our current leadership, though. They have other ideas for us subjects. The key to everything is don't have an incident. No one will ever know that your drivers license is expired unless you get pulled over or are in a crash. Same with insurance. Obviously there are exceptions to those statements, but generally, if you appear to follow the rules, no one will know that you are not. Now, once involved in an incident, you are guilty until proven innocent.

[Andy95W]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I would probably turn him in to the FAA. Now that he's dead, and killed his wife and child to boot, I bet some of those operations staff members wish that they had.

[kerry]

I could be wrong but I think you can file and fly a IFR flight plan as a VFR pilot as long as it's VFR conditions.  I never did get my IFR ticket but I remember training for it with a friend of mine a few years back.  Seems like we would file and fly the plan.  One of us would wear the hood and the other would act as a safety pilot and we could both log the hours.  I can't remember if we told the controller we were in training or not.   If I'm wrong I'm sure somebody here will correct me.  

[Hank]

I could be wrong but I think you can file and fly a IFR flight plan as a VFR pilot as long as it's VFR conditions.  I never did get my IFR ticket but I remember training for it with a friend of mine a few years back.  Seems like we would file and fly the plan.  One of us would wear the hood and the other would act as a safety pilot and we could both log the hours.  I can't remember if we told the controller we were in training or not.   If I'm wrong I'm sure somebody here will correct me.

Nope. Someone will quote chapter and verse, but the relevant FAR starts out "no one can file or operate an aircraft under IFR unless" the PIC is instrument rated, the aircraft is properly equipped, the PIC has completed the required approaches, tracking and holds, etc.

When I was working on my rating, I filed flight plans under my CFII's name. For practice approaches in VFR, a flight plan is not needed, just call Approach / Center and ask, for example, for a Practice ILS 30 into HTS. If they can give it to you, they will, complete with vectors, but it always ends with "maintain VFR." If you're doing a VOR or GPS approach on the edge of radar service, they will also remind you "no separation services will be provided, radar contact lost, call back on your miss" or something similar.

No "Instrument Airplane" above Orville and Wilbur's heads, no filing IFR flight plan. Learn on an IFR flight plan in your CFII's name, practice in VFR without a flight plan (or a VFR flight plan if you feel so inclined).

[201er]

I could be wrong but I think you can file and fly a IFR flight plan as a VFR pilot as long as it's VFR conditions.  I never did get my IFR ticket but I remember training for it with a friend of mine a few years back.  Seems like we would file and fly the plan.  One of us would wear the hood and the other would act as a safety pilot and we could both log the hours.  I can't remember if we told the controller we were in training or not.   If I'm wrong I'm sure somebody here will correct me.

Nice try

61.3

(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;

[201er]

It occurred to me that any pilot might simply file an IFR FP, TO into IMC, fly wherever, execute an approach, land and go on his merry way. How would the FAA know that he was not instrument rated? Then I thought, wait, surely they check the pilot name on the FP against the airman DB, no? Apparently not.

 

As an aside, and of course we don't know exactly what happened, but it appears that IMC took out this man, his wife and his 9 YO son.

First of all, you are required to have an instrument rating in order to file IFR. Secondly, every time you file IFR, you provide your first and last name. If you use a computer system to file, it may automatically check your name against a database. By phone, it's however their system works. Technical/legal matters aside, it's not like it is impossible to fly instruments without an IFR flight plan or clearance or heck fly an airplane without a private pilot certificate. However, it is down right foolish! The rating requirements really are minimums and not mere recommendations. Even having the rating doesnt mean a pilot would be prudent to go above his capabilities. If someone cant cough up the minimums or pass a checkride, they should realize they really arent capable of doing it. They can lie to themselves and pretend they are but as seen here leads to terrible outcomes.

This is why there aren't really sky cops. The Darwin awards seem to pluck the rule breakers for the most part anyway.

[NotarPilot]

I'd just like to add that when you get a pop up or a tower en route, you do not provide your name so there's no way to check who's flying on that IFR flight plan.

[kerry]

My mistake.  I do remember doing the ILS approaches.  The more I think about it we didn't file a IFR plan but simulated are own plan and followed it to make it real as possible.  Over the intercom the safety pilot would call out the vectors acting like ARTCC.  I remember following all the instructions when doing the approaches and confused it with actually doing a IFR flight plan. 

[Immelman]

Here is a follow-on question: What is to stop anyone (who knows how) from simply hopping into an airplane and flying it somewhere....without any sort of pilot certificate? Not a dog gone thing. Nor unlicensed driver. Its illegal, and stupid... but someone who wants to do so, can.

[kerry]

and have

[N9453V]

First of all, you are required to have an instrument rating in order to file IFR. Secondly, every time you file IFR, you provide your first and last name. If you use a computer system to file, it may automatically check your name against a database. By phone, it's however their system works. Technical/legal matters aside, it's not like it is impossible to fly instruments without an IFR flight plan or clearance or heck fly an airplane without a private pilot certificate. However, it is down right foolish! The rating requirements really are minimums and not mere recommendations. Even having the rating doesnt mean a pilot would be prudent to go above his capabilities. If someone cant cough up the minimums or pass a checkride, they should realize they really arent capable of doing it. They can lie to themselves and pretend they are but as seen here leads to terrible outcomes.

This is why there aren't really sky cops. The Darwin awards seem to pluck the rule breakers for the most part anyway.

 

201er,

 

You don't need an instrument rating to FILE IFR, only to act as PIC of an aircraft operating IFR or in IMC conditions. The dispatchers filing IFR flight plans for airlines don't need an instrument rating.

 

-Andrew

[Tommy]

Rules are clear but enforcement is hard. One may argue what's the point of having them in the first place?

 

Unlike hundreds of thousands of police on the road, ready to pull one over (only to discover that you had no valid license), there are only a handful of FAA ramp check officers. So until  an incident / accident occurs, it seems like any pilot can get away with just about anything!

 

The best form of enforcement, however, is the fact that one often pays with his/her life in an aviation incident / accident.

[midlifeflyer]

In most any endeavor there is an assumption that most participants are simply playing by the rules. Even in the driving without a license situation, it's not until the unlicensed motorist does something to attract attention is the lack of a license discovered.

[aviatoreb]

I'd just like to add that when you get a pop up or a tower en route, you do not provide your name so there's no way to check who's flying on that IFR flight plan.

 

They do ask if you are equipped and capable meaning in a proper airplane and you are a properly rated and current pilot.  If you answer yes then it is assumed you are not lying.  They will sort it all out later if you crash.  This is the way it should be - if they spent too much time checking you are compliant that itself would interfere with safety.  There are lots of other rules they don't check until you crash - like annual - you need to be flying an airplane that is in annual.  You are required to wear your seatbelts during certain phases of flight and yet there is not a fed in the back seat, or a satellite camera focused on you, to check that you are - but if there is an incident - then it all gets sorted out and the ntsb report will have some unflattering remark about it.  And lots and lots more similar freedoms that can be broken and make you look like a yutz in your ntsb report.

[HRM]

This is why there aren't really sky cops. The Darwin awards seem to pluck the rule breakers for the most part anyway.

 

There aren't sky cops because we don't all drive hoverable flying cars à la Jetsons yet.

 

I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people, just remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

[201er]

201er,

 

You don't need an instrument rating to FILE IFR, only to act as PIC of an aircraft operating IFR or in IMC conditions. The dispatchers filing IFR flight plans for airlines don't need an instrument rating.

 

-Andrew

. Yeah but dont they file it in the PIC's name?

[HRM]

. Yeah but dont they file it in the PIC's name?

 

I think you have to look at the flight plan as a notification and a request rather than a statement of fact as to what will happen. It allows ATC to reserve a place in the flow, which is a dynamic entity. There are time limits and, if anything, they address the aircraft and not the pilot. If the aircraft, now containing at least one (for the time being), essentially nameless human, does not get into the airspace at a particular time then other events take place.

 

The legality comes into play here as to whether or not the flight plan was a truthful statement or not. When the time came for that aircraft to enter the airspace, did it have the stated tail number, were there indeed one, two, etc., souls on board, did it have three hours of fuel, etc..

 

Again, let's say that the filer said that the plane had three hours when in reality it had only two? What are the consequences? Well, it was just a plan after all and we all know that plans are not perfect, plans often go awry, plans get misinterpreted and, in the end, we simply cannot plan for every possible event.

 

In a sense, this is why the PIC is held responsible. The buck stops with him. No excuses, no "I forgot", there is no try, only do or do not.

[bonal]

On a trip to Sandiego with my wife and my CFI he suggested we file IFR to make the LAX Bravo transition and we filed in his name and I flew left seat it was fun passing right through and over LAX at 10k. For the return trip we were again IFR and flying in beautiful clear sky with a solid undercast. When we hit the mountains north of LA I got hit with a strong down draft and blew my assignment for a moment which he had to explain to ATC. That was a fun flight and I learned a lot.

[Dave Marten]

On a trip to Sandiego with my wife and my CFI he suggested we file IFR to make the LAX Bravo transition and we filed in his name and I flew left seat it was fun passing right through and over LAX at 10k. For the return trip we were again IFR and flying in beautiful clear sky with a solid undercast. When we hit the mountains north of LA I got hit with a strong down draft and blew my assignment for a moment which he had to explain to ATC. That was a fun flight and I learned a lot.

Great way to take advantage of a training oppurtunity. Hopefully an inspiration toward starting on your own IFR rating. Even better that your wife was on board to witness the increase in capability/utility of your aircraft when operated by a proficient IFR pilot.

 

Kudos to you and your CFII.

[bonal]

Thanks for the nice comment. As for my CFI his flying career is without a doubt the most colorful one can imagine. Flying big 4 engine radials filled with rock stars and movie stars and cargo all over the world and delivering Cessnas to dealerships even running a flight school at the local high school that had a donated C150 I hope he takes the time to write a book it would be a good read.

[Marauder]

Great way to take advantage of a training oppurtunity. Hopefully an inspiration toward starting on your own IFR rating. Even better that your wife was on board to witness the increase in capability/utility of your aircraft when operated by a proficient IFR pilot.

Kudos to you and your CFII.

I took a friend on an IFR recently who is working on his private (just past solo). After I picked up the clearance, he looked over at me and said "Man, do I have a lot to learn".

[carusoam]

Anyone remember a teenager that took mom's car out for a drive before they got their license...?

What do people think of that guy now..? (He grew up so much since then...)

Yes you can.

No you shouldn't.

Similar to having a couple of adult beverages and driving..?

Life gets expensive when you don't follow the rules.

It is difficult to follow the rules if you don't have the training.

Even the basic training doesn't cover the 'best way for a Mooney'. Seek more training, often.

Insurance companies talk to each other, you are in their database.

Public records are too easy to access...

Broken machines are costly.

Darwin is inspiring.

Go to MS for guidance, you get plenty.

Why would anyone do something they aren't authorized for..?

The insurance company and the FAA will be interested after the accident...

Thoughts for the day...

-a-

[N601RX]

Here is a follow-on question: What is to stop anyone (who knows how) from simply hopping into an airplane and flying it somewhere....without any sort of pilot certificate? Not a dog gone thing. Nor unlicensed driver. Its illegal, and stupid... but someone who wants to do so, can.

It probably happens more than most people would want to believe. There is "rumored" be a 40 year pilot and owner in my area who has been doing just that for the last 40 years. Once you have been around the airport longer than anyone else no one really questions it.

[HRM]

It probably happens more than most people would want to believe. There is "rumored" be a 40 year pilot and owner in my area who has been doing just that for the last 40 years. Once you have been around the airport longer than anyone else no one really questions it.

 

One of the old saws is that your PPL is just a "license to learn." Earlier we saw on this thread that the IFR rating is pretty much the same thing. The value of a certificate is measured only in what an individual put in to getting it and what they do with it. Otherwise, that certificate and five bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks.

 

I started this thread because I was interested in discussion over what I found to be an appalling discovery--that there was a guy blatantly breaking the rules until mother nature reared up and put an end to it. Well, was it ended because of his lack of skill, the fact that he did not have the ticket? Frankly, we will never know. Let's say he did have the rating, would the outcome have been different? Reading the scenarios in Pilot Error, where legally IFR rated pilots go down to their deaths indicates the answer may be no.