Jump to content

Vintage Mooney Cowling Mod


Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

 


I'm shooting for 200KTAS with this mod!!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

 

Why not. Shoot for the moon. Personally, I will be happy to see a steady 164 ktas at 70% ROP cruise. Should be realistic from where I am now.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Marauder said:

First of all, you shouldn't bash Danb for living there. And secondly, no one lives in Deleware but there are some that live in Delaware. emoji12.png

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

haha.  I can't believe I misspelled it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Sabremech said:

I did this to accommodate those who have an oil cooler relocation already. I didn't want the extra documentation and cost to add this as part of my mod.

I hope either lasar will still be selling the oil cooler mod or someone else after/if they close.  Since the whole thing would be in parts anyway, I would prefer to do them both at the same time. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's my initial thought process on how I'll do the mod process. I'll send out a box designed to fit the cowling pieces ( upper cowl, lower cowl and cheek panels). In this box will be the baffling, carb air box, spinner and backplate if necessary, and misc hardware. The customer will pack his cowlings in the box and send them to me. While the baffling etc is being installed at your hangar, I'll mod the cowling and then ship it back where it can be painted and striped if necessary then reinstalled. Engine mount shimming can be done for final alignment to the new cowling. 

I'd like to control the cowling pieces being installed and fitted. It's not that others can't install them, but it's my reputation on the line and not everyone will take the time to get it as close to right as possible. 

Thoughts?

Thanks, David

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, that's better than I thought it would go David!! Nice plan! That will be better than some guy trying to figure out what you have already done. 

The cost shipping will be FAR better than some one else's learning curve!!! 

Solid!!

-Matt 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi David,
So will the Hartzell scimitar HCIC2YR- 1BFPlF7497 2 blade  propeller and 835-54(P) spinner  and/or  back plate need any modification?

I think the  idea of send the cowl back to you for modification  is great one.  but   like you have already mentioned or  eluded to, how many  different cowl enclosures  have been installed with shims  other method of  alignment to make them  cowl enclosure fit.   I suspect many of us don't  the full history of why or how  or who did  the  cowling enclosure on   our airplanes.  Or what trick(s)  the  A&P or Non- A&P  had to modified to get the cowl enclosure to make it fit.  My case the previous owner used a bunch washers to shim the engine mount to fit the cowl enclosure but when I went to replace the lord engine mounts  the  cowl enclosure wound up rubbing  against  the ring gear.  I guess  another thing to consider ( I am stating the obvious)  if you  where to paint each mod to match the cowling   all the different colors  combination  of   cowlings out there .  I would suspect that  could take up consider amount of your  time.  unless unpainted  or painted was an option.   curious how many hours to fit the fiberglass mod?

What are the Critical measurements or areas  that would effect on how you install fiberglass cowl enclosure ?     

Also I am curious, I am getting ready on replacing the oil door and battery access door  Dzus fittings on my top engine cowling and switching to Cam-Lok type fittings (no tools needed) just a finger to open access doors like on M20J and  some Piper's and other  engine cowlings . Should I hold off ? The reason why I ask is  that  I was thinking of remaking oil door and battery access door since  there would be a  fairly large hole from the Dzus screw head  fasteners which would be  in the wrong place  in the access doors for Cam-lok  I was going of just leaving  DSUZ receptacle in cowling.  Would this   effect  your cowl mod ?

 

 

Thanks for all your great work and making all our airplanes look cool and having our CHT's run cool as well.

 

James '67C

Edited by jamesm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Here's my initial thought process on how I'll do the mod process. I'll send out a box designed to fit the cowling pieces ( upper cowl, lower cowl and cheek panels). In this box will be the baffling, carb air box, spinner and backplate if necessary, and misc hardware. The customer will pack his cowlings in the box and send them to me. While the baffling etc is being installed at your hangar, I'll mod the cowling and then ship it back where it can be painted and striped if necessary then reinstalled. Engine mount shimming can be done for final alignment to the new cowling. 

I'd like to control the cowling pieces being installed and fitted. It's not that others can't install them, but it's my reputation on the line and not everyone will take the time to get it as close to right as possible. 

Thoughts?

Thanks, David

David,

Any idea how many hours it will take you to do the conversion once you have our cowl pieces in hand? I am an IA and do all my own work usually so I'm just curious if you have figured out how many hours you will bill for this process. I think your idea of sending the baffle pieces and carb. box to have the owners mechanic install is a great idea. Ultimately I guess the mechanic doing the final install of the cowl pieces after you send them back will complete both box 6 & 7 on the 337? Looking forward to getting one of these in my hand some day! @Marauder If he sends you one first I'll be happy to come down and help you unistall/install the cowling :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, jamesm said:

Hi David,
So will the Hartzell scimitar HCIC2YR- 1BFPlF7497 2 blade  propeller and 835-54(P) spinner  and/or  back plate need any modification?

I think the  idea of send the cowl back to you for modification  is great one.  but   like you have already mentioned or  eluded to, how many  different cowl enclosures  have been installed with shims  other method of  alignment to make them  cowl enclosure fit.   I suspect many of us don't  the full history of why or how  or who did  the  cowling enclosure on   our airplanes.  Or what trick(s)  the  A&P or Non- A&P  had to modified to get the cowl enclosure to make it fit.  My case the previous owner used a bunch washers to shim the engine mount to fit the cowl enclosure but when I went to replace the lord engine mounts  the  cowl enclosure wound up rubbing  against  the ring gear.  I guess  another thing to consider ( I am stating the obvious)  if you  where to paint each mod to match the cowling   all the different colors  combination  of   cowlings out there .  I would suspect that  could take up consider amount of your  time.  unless unpainted  or painted was an option.   curious how many hours to fit the fiberglass mod?

What are the Critical measurements or areas  that would effect on how you install fiberglass cowl enclosure ?     

Also I am curious, I am getting ready on replacing the oil door and battery access door  Dzus fittings on my top engine cowling and switching to Cam-Lok type fittings (no tools needed) just a finger to open access doors like on M20J and  some Piper's and other  engine cowlings . Should I hold off ? The reason why I ask is  that  I was thinking of remaking oil door and battery access door since  there would be a  fairly large hole from the Dzus screw head  fasteners which would be  in the wrong place  in the access doors for Cam-lok  I was going of just leaving  DSUZ receptacle in cowling.  Would this   effect  your cowl mod ?

 

 

Thanks for all your great work and making all our airplanes look cool and having our CHT's run cool as well.

 

James '67C

Hi James,

You will need a different spinner as the 835 p/n spinner mounts to the ring gear. You'll need a 201 style spinner that is 14 inches across at the base and mounts to the back of the prop hub. 

I installed new engine mounts before I did any of my mould work so in theory, mine should fit well provided you have newer mounts or shim what you have. 

I'll be able to give a more accurate number of hours to install the cowling pieces after I mod the G and F models that I will be doing soon. You don't want to know the hours I have in mine! 

I only change the front 6 inches or so of the top cowling at a factory seam so none of the area you want to work on Dzus or Cam locks will be effected by the mod.

Thanks,

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, N6758N said:

David,

Any idea how many hours it will take you to do the conversion once you have our cowl pieces in hand? I am an IA and do all my own work usually so I'm just curious if you have figured out how many hours you will bill for this process. I think your idea of sending the baffle pieces and carb. box to have the owners mechanic install is a great idea. Ultimately I guess the mechanic doing the final install of the cowl pieces after you send them back will complete both box 6 & 7 on the 337? Looking forward to getting one of these in my hand some day! @Marauder If he sends you one first I'll be happy to come down and help you unistall/install the cowling :D

Hi N6758N,

I've only done my cowling so far so no really good estimate on hours yet. I will have a better idea after I do the G and F models soon. 

I'm thinking of just having a flat rate for the cowling work itself. That way I can give a pretty firm price on the cost to install. C and G models will take less time to mod the lower cowling than E's and F's as there's less structure to remove. 

I think potential customers would prefer to have a solid number and remove any labor variable. 

Thanks,

David

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sabremech said:

 

I'm thinking of just having a flat rate for the cowling work itself. That way I can give a pretty firm price on the cost to install. C and G models will take less time to mod the lower cowling than E's and F's as there's less structure to remove. 

I think potential customers would prefer to have a solid number and remove any labor variable. 

 

Yaay!!!

One other thing that we are now all curious about:  what will be left for my local shop to do beside reinstall the cowl?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Yaay!!!

One other thing that we are now all curious about:  what will be left for my local shop to do beside reinstall the cowl?

Hi Hank,

The local shop will install the baffling, new carb air box if needed, relocate carb heat cable if required, and spinner if needed. Once the cowling is done, then reinstall it. 

Thanks

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David:  A question for you on your Mod.  I was considering doing an oil cooler relocation on my plane.  Laser stocks these, but kits are listed for 67 and up that are NON doghouse open baffle designs.  I called LASER and asked if I am switching to an open baffle design if there was any reason the Mod would NOT work on my 66 M20E.  He said that the STC is designated for 67 and later and that there is NO RIBBING on the top cowl of the pre-67 design that was put in to aid the open baffle design.

Have you contemplated the pre-67 doghouse cowl difference regarding cooling for your baffle mod?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi S, 

I'm not quite sure what ribbing they are referring to that helps open baffling. I'd be interested in pictures of a 67 and up upper cowling for reference. I installed a reinforced baffle seal across the back of my baffling to keep it tight to the upper cowl and hopefully prevent any baffle seal movement in flight and under pressure. I don't see any issue moving the oil cooler with my baffling kit as most, if not all, of the Van's RV's coolers are mounted behind the cylinders on the baffling and the top cowling has no ribbing aiding the baffle seals. 

I'm using Van's RV baffle kits and trimming them to fit our cowling. I could order the oil cooler reinforcement and mounting kits and add them to the kit to be installed by the owner of the aircraft. I would leave that up to the owner to get it installed and a field approval approved for that part. I would provide the lower cowling without the oil cooler hole in it for those who want to go that route. 

Hope that answers the questions.

David

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

David:  A question for you on your Mod.  I was considering doing an oil cooler relocation on my plane.  Laser stocks these, but kits are listed for 67 and up that are NON doghouse open baffle designs.  I called LASER and asked if I am switching to an open baffle design if there was any reason the Mod would NOT work on my 66 M20E.  He said that the STC is designated for 67 and later and that there is NO RIBBING on the top cowl of the pre-67 design that was put in to aid the open baffle design.

Have you contemplated the pre-67 doghouse cowl difference regarding cooling for your baffle mod?

FWIW, I have the LASAR relocated oil cooler accomplished in 1997 "Oil cooler relocated by Lake Aero Style STC SA2513NM". 

The upper cowl has some mods to line up with baffle seals, we add a couple more. Probably do to the difference between the '67 and the older cowls. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

FWIW, I have the LASAR relocated oil cooler accomplished in 1997 "Oil cooler relocated by Lake Aero Style STC SA2513NM". 

The upper cowl has some mods to line up with baffle seals, we add a couple more. Probably do to the difference between the '67 and the older cowls. 

Hey Bob, do you have some pictures of the inside of your upper cowling?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For comparison, this is the underside of the cowl of my 1970 C.

20170119_175938.jpg

This is my resurrected doghouse 

20170119_180521.jpg

But all repairs are not immediately visible . . .

20170119_180754.jpg

I like the look of Bob's much better!

Edited by Hank
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure why LASAR telling you that.  I installed some used open baffles on my 66 to replace the dog house last year.  I also purchased the STC for the oil cooler relocation from LASAR at the same time and installed.  They accepted my serial number, year, and model of my aircraft at that time for the STC paperwork.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, flyntgr1 said:

I'm not sure why LASAR telling you that.  I installed some used open baffles on my 66 to replace the dog house last year.  I also purchased the STC for the oil cooler relocation from LASAR at the same time and installed.  They accepted my serial number, year, and model of my aircraft at that time for the STC paperwork.

The mods list for oil cooler relocation on the website says 67 models and up so that's why I called....That was the comments I received from LASAR...

? I like that David will work parts into his "kit".  I would prefer to have the relocation and clean front cowl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.