Tommy Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Title says it all Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required: (1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph ( of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph © of this section. (2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown. (3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft: (i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in §121.305(j) of this chapter; and (ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with §29.1303(g) of this chapter. (4) Slip-skid indicator. (5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure. (6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation. (7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity. (8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon). (9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div8&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.3.7.3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 And since Tommy is Australian, a pint in the cooler for when he gets back to the airport. I wonder how different the regs are in Australia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Mike listed the requirements... "Tommy may be asking something more like... Do you guys use all this antiquated junk in the panel? Why not just get a big GTN and skip the old DME and ADF stuff? Got the JPI 900(?) already...." Or maybe just what I'm thinking...? The FAA throws in a line that indicates Nav equipment appropriate for the flight. Nice gov-speak that indicates no details and leaves room for change... (2) in Mike's list. Does Australia have WAAS based GPS approaches? There is a lot of non-WAAS GPS equipment hitting the market in the US. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Also an IFR cert on the transponder, encoder, altimeter and static system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Also an IFR cert on the transponder, encoder, altimeter and static system. And the 30 day VOR check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 There's a bazillion rules, Tommy was just asking about required equipment. Think that's been covered by TOMATO FLAMES, an unforgettable acronym that I can never remember everything from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 hank it sounds like your making some good spaghetti gravy...penne or spags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 There's a bazillion rules, Tommy was just asking about required equipment. Think that's been covered by TOMATO FLAMES, an unforgettable acronym that I can never remember everything from. TOMATO FLAMES covers required VFR equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Actually, 91.205 is the minimum required. There can be additional requirements in the type certificate or a Minimum Equipment List (MEL) developed for the specific airplane or operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required: (1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph ( of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph © of this section. (2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown. (3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft: (i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in §121.305(j) of this chapter; and (ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with §29.1303(g) of this chapter. (4) Slip-skid indicator. (5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure. (6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation. (7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity. (8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon). (9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div8&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.3.7.3 Reference to 91.205 is never a sufficient answer to a required equipment question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Actually, 91.205 is the minimum required. There can be additional requirements in the type certificate or a Minimum Equipment List (MEL) developed for the specific airplane or operation. Yep. I blame the common fallacy of thinking that 91.205 is the be-all and end-all on the use of the idiotic mnemonic about burning red fruit. But just to clarify, a MEL isn't a list of required equipment. It's a list of equipment that is not required - equipment that can be inop without grounding the airplane. And you are right - it is aircraft- and operator- specific. What I think you are referring to is the list in 91.213(d)(2) for determining equipment requirements when there is not a MEL. I suspect you know this, but it is an incredibly common error, one that I cover in the ground portion of just about every flight review I give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 yes, but 91.213: (b ) The following instruments and equipment may not be included in a Minimum Equipment List:(3) Instruments and equipment required for specific operations by this part. which in my mind means that 91.205 still controls the required instruments, even with an MEL or MMEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Flaps is the acronym for night vfr and grabcard for ifr. Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 A least one N1 gauge...Preferably two... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 yes, but 91.213: which in my mind means that 91.205 still controls the required instruments, even with an MEL or MMEL All 91.205 tells you is some of the equipment that is required. The problem is that a lot of pilots think that's all of the equipment that's required. I've been doing a quiz periodically for years (and it's a standard flight review question for me: IFR or VFR, can you fly your airplane with an inoperative stall warning device? Purely anecdotal but you might be surprised at the percentage of people who get it wrong, with those who learned about burning red fruit far more likely to get it wrong than those who don't. And there are MELs that permit an aircraft to be flown even with 91.205 equipment that is inoperative. It rare but the most common one is allowing the aircraft to be flown with only one operative fuel gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 we are in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 A least one N1 gauge...Preferably two... Huh . . . Don't recall seeing those in my Mooney, but I have explored the inside of many a cloud with it. To say nothing of those hazy descents where the world just disappeared without any clouds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 M-A-T-F-O-O-L-S-M-A-T-E. G-R-A-B-C-A-R-D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awqward Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Mike listed the requirements... "Tommy may be asking something more like... Do you guys use all this antiquated junk in the panel? Why not just get a big GTN and skip the old DME and ADF stuff? Got the JPI 900(?) already...." Or maybe just what I'm thinking...? The FAA throws in a line that indicates Nav equipment appropriate for the flight. Nice gov-speak that indicates no details and leaves room for change... (2) in Mike's list. Does Australia have WAAS based GPS approaches? There is a lot of non-WAAS GPS equipment hitting the market in the US. Best regards, -a- There is no WAAS in Australia....setting up the required satellites is too expensive for a relatively small (population-wise) country....they were talking to the Indians and the Japanese about redirecting one or two of their satellites/ transponders to give a footprint over Australia but I don't think that is going to happen.....now Australia is talking about Ground-based Augmentation (GBAS) but I believe that will require different equipment in the panel...so probably only aimed at airlines... But they do have ADS-B and as far as I know the requirement (Australian CASA) is that the position source needs to be TSO146....so most people will end up with WAAS capable navigators in Australia...even though there is no WAAS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awqward Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 All 91.205 tells you is some of the equipment that is required. The problem is that a lot of pilots think that's all of the equipment that's required. I've been doing a quiz periodically for years (and it's a standard flight review question for me: IFR or VFR, can you fly your airplane with an inoperative stall warning device? Purely anecdotal but you might be surprised at the percentage of people who get it wrong, with those who learned about burning red fruit far more likely to get it wrong than those who don't. And there are MELs that permit an aircraft to be flown even with 91.205 equipment that is inoperative. It rare but the most common one is allowing the aircraft to be flown with only one operative fuel gauge. Australia is revising all their regulations (a process that started about 15 years ago when the head of the CASA was an American)...,the new numbering system follows the FARs.... So there is a Part 91 (still in consultation?!)....but that is where the similarity ends...the subparts are completely different both in content and in spirit....for example below is CASR 91.140 and you can see it is mostly about making it clear that you will be fined....no excuses (strict liability) for breaking the rules...and even what the penalty is in therms of "penalty units"....clever doing it this way because they can adjust the value of a penalty unit without having to amend the regulations....I think 1 penalty unit is about $150... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Australia is revising all their regulations (a process that started about 15 years ago when the head of the CASA was an American)...,the new numbering system follows the FARs.... So there is a Part 91 (still in consultation?!)....but that is where the similarity ends...the subparts are completely different both in content and in spirit....for example below is CASR 91.140 and you can see it is mostly about making it clear that you will be fined....no excuses (strict liability) for breaking the rules...and even what the penalty is in therms of "penalty units"....clever doing it this way because they can adjust the value of a penalty unit without having to amend the regulations....I think 1 penalty unit is about $150... Interesting. I wouldn't necessarily expect the rules to be equivalent but is the general structure the same? What I mean is, if you look at the table of contents of the FAR, you can see that Part 1 is general definitions, Part 23 deals with aircraft certification rules, Part 61 covers general pilot certificates, rating and currency, Part 71, airspace, Part 91, the "rules of the road," Part 119, operating certificates in general, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awqward Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yes the numbering is the same... http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_91072 More or less....although I notice there is no Part43... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted March 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 There is no WAAS in Australia....setting up the required satellites is too expensive for a relatively small (population-wise) country....they were talking to the Indians and the Japanese about redirecting one or two of their satellites/ transponders to give a footprint over Australia but I don't think that is going to happen.....now Australia is talking about Ground-based Augmentation (GBAS) but I believe that will require different equipment in the panel...so probably only aimed at airlines... But they do have ADS-B and as far as I know the requirement (Australian CASA) is that the position source needs to be TSO146....so most people will end up with WAAS capable navigators in Australia...even though there is no WAAS! I think we the Aussie should have done what the Kiwi had done in the past. Simply adopting FAA rules and regulations en bloc without modifications. Would've made it so much cheaper for the government and easier for the pilots. Local flight schools will also be more competitive internationally. This ADS-B business is a farce. No In capability (weather / FIS etc) No WAAS and a complete package + installation will certainly be 35-50% more expensive than getting it done in US (especially with falling Aussie dollar) Last few weeks I had been flying into Archerfield (one of the largest GA airports in Australia) and I could count the GA aircrafts with my fingers! To be fair, quite a few were damaged after TWO massive storms swept across Brisbane last month. But with ADS-B mandate, many owners are taking the money instead of getting it replaced or repaired. It really is the beginning of the end... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted March 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 My J has got pretty much factory original avionics including One AH/HSI/ADF/VOR/GS/KFC200/Alt Static/2 radios/Mode-C transponder Do I need anything else or replace the GPS for IFR training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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