flyboy0681 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The context is an IFR candidate or newly minted rating. Sure, it is great to file just to stay in the system for procedural currency, but as is often is typical, one may have 270 hours of one habit and only 70 hours of another, newer habit. Which is me. I earned (and I mean EARNED) my rating last year and I'm still in the honeymoon stage. I always file in good weather just to get used to the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBill Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Do you call ATC directly or use wx brief? I use ADDS or if not black /white will call a briefer. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I use ADDS and call a briefer, then file with the briefer. For clearance at home, I used to take off and pick it up in the air; if bad, I would call the tower directly for clearance from the hold short, they would always transfer me to a recorded line for the readback. Once they asked if I really wanted to do it this way, as I would have to wait ~10 mins, but it was low and ragged and I didn't mind waiting. Now, I'm pretty much relegated to the 888 number saved in my cell phone. I've got to hit >1500 agl to pick up Atlanta Center, instead of reaching the Class D just 4nm away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnisley Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 If you ever need to pick up a clearance out of KHWY Warrenton, Va you can contact Potomac Approach direct at 866-709-4993, their GCO has been out of service for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Which is me. I earned (and I mean EARNED) my rating last year and I'm still in the honeymoon stage. I always file in good weather just to get used to the system. This is why I always use FF and I fly out of a towered airport. This thread has helped me immensely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I've learned to ask IFR pilots when I move into an area what is the "preferred" routing for going somewhere. I know Philly, Dover and Potomac have letters of agreement between them and you just won't get what you want when flying south from here. And the"preferred" does change. I hadn't been to New England for a few years and I saw the clearance they gave poor Bob when he came to visit. I check with Flightaware.com to find the most common routings. You can see the flight plan clearances at the bottom line of the flight info. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Now, I'm pretty much relegated to the 888 number saved in my cell phone. I've got to hit >1500 agl to pick up Atlanta Center, instead of reaching the Class D just 4nm away. Hank, try 678-364-6131. That's Atlanta-south direct line. It works where I am. I think it will work for you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamR Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hank, the 6131 number referenced by Mooneymite works for most of metro Atlanta north and south. 678-364-6132 also works for those areas like Thomaston, LaGrange, etc. (the former Macon and Columbus approach). Hope that helps. W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The context is an IFR candidate or newly minted rating. Sure, it is great to file just to stay in the system for procedural currency, but as is often typical, one may have 270 hours of one habit and only 70 hours of another, newer habit. It still varies a lot with the pilot. I know people who stayed clear of "real" IFR for a long time while still filing IFR in order to get more used to the system, while others hop right into the soup (just to compare with flyboy's post, my first IFR flight was a week after I earned the rating and involved a void time clearance in which I entered the clouds at about 2000 AGL on departure and left them about 300' above DA an hour later). A lot of the "when" depends on a lot of factors but IFR training, which by its nature is very approach-intensive, is notoriously deficient in the variations in en route issues that can come up. So it makes sense for people, newbies or old-hands to file IFR on a regular basis, for system proficiency. That's not to say all the time. One of the downsides of getting the rating is, IMO, the loss of some VFR skills (my favorite story is the rental checkout of newly-minted instrument pilot who couldn't seem to find an interstate highway without a cross-radial). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hank, the 6131 number referenced by Mooneymite works for most of metro Atlanta north and south. 678-364-6132 also works for those areas like Thomaston, LaGrange, etc. (the former Macon and Columbus approach). Hope that helps. W Thanks, ya'll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 OK, so I went to FlightAware and put in KBPT⇒KEDC and it popped out "KBPT DAS V306 TNV KEDC," which is the route I got from ATC under FF the last time I cam back to KBPT from KEDC. Anyway, talking IFR now, when I put that plan into SkyVector, it just recognized "KBPT DAS TNV KEDC." The flight path bypasses V306, but if I add the fix ZMSKL, then the plan follows V306. I am guessing Skyvector does not know Victor airways and that ATC would expect me to stay on V306. The best way for me to do that would be to fly "KBPT DAS ZMSKL TNV KEDC." So why didn't they just say that (KBPT DAS ZMSKL TNV KEDC) in the first place? Yeah, I know: yours is not to reason why, yours is but to do or die (apologies to Tennyson), but I would like to hear some opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hank, try 678-364-6131. That's Atlanta-south direct line. It works where I am. I think it will work for you too. AIR ROUTE TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTERS (ARTCCs) ARTCC NAME *24 HR REGIONAL DUTY OFFICE TELEPHONE # BUSINESS HOURS BUSINESS TELEPHONE # Albuquerque 817-222-5006 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 505-856-4300 Anchorage 907-271-5936 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 907-269-1137 Atlanta 404-305-5180 7:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. 770-210-7601 Boston 617-238-7001 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 603-879-6633 Chicago 847-294-8400 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 630-906-8221 Cleveland 847-294-8400 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 440-774-0310 Denver 425-227-1389 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 303-651-4100 Ft. Worth 817-222-5006 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 817-858-7300 Houston 817-222-5006 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 723-230-5300 Indianapolis 847-294-8400 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 317-247-2231 Jacksonville 404-305-5180 8:00 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. 904-549-1501 Kansas City 816-426-4600 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 913-254-8500 Los Angeles 661-265-8200 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 661-265-8200 Memphis 404-305-5180 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 901-368-8103 Miami 404-305-5180 7:30 a.m. - 3:30 p.m. 305-716-1500 Minneapolis 651-294-8400 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 612-463-5510 New York 718-995-5426 8:00 a.m. - 4:40 p.m. 516-468-1001 Oakland 310-643-3200 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 510-745-3301 Salt Lake City 425-227-1389 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 801-320-2500 Seattle 425-227-1389 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. 253-351-3500 Washington 718-995-5426 8:00 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. 703-771-3401 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Garmin and Tennyson both like victor airways! Victor Airways are left overs from the age of paper. It was a method of simplifying common complex routes between VORs. every now and then an intersection is tossed in. Probable cause: The cost of moving or adding another VOR is somewhat expensive... GPS and computer technology is really simplifying things, rapidly(?)... Stay on the path... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Garmin and Tennyson both like victor airways! My next question was going to be: How many of you have one or two VOR receivers and a HH GPS and never use the VORs (except when a CFII is present) to follow a Victor airway. Come on, be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 That's not to say all the time. One of the downsides of getting the rating is, IMO, the loss of some VFR skills (my favorite story is the rental checkout of newly-minted instrument pilot who couldn't seem to find an interstate highway without a cross-radial). Precisely my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I only have one GPS. keeping current on the old stuff is important. OTOH, if I were to go with two Waas GPi, the old stuff may become less important...? Don't become too dependent/complacent with one device... Sitting alone in IMC you get plenty of time to think about simple failures and how they can effect your flight... Having a viable plan B is critical.... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I only have one GPS. Ahhhhh...but the kind of GPS is critical here. You could have 5 of the wrong kind and it would not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 you definitely want two separate devices, preferably GPS + nav. nobody needs a ADF or Loran anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 My next question was going to be: How many of you have one or two VOR receivers and a HH GPS and never use the VORs (except when a CFII is present) to follow a Victor airway. Come on, be honest. Me. I have a VOR receiver on the 430 and a KNS80, each with a separate HSI/CDI. I play with them to have something to do on long flights, and of course have used them to fly approaches, particularly ILS's, but in the approximately 5 years I have owned the aircraft I have never used the VOR's for enroute navigation. The GPS does all the work, all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Me. I have a VOR receiver on the 430 and a KNS80... HH = HANDHELD My GPSMAP295 has WAAS and all approaches, but it is not legal for either enroute or approach. My question was, how many are using their "situation awareness" GPS unit to fly enroute rather than tune in the analog VOR(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 OK, so I went to FlightAware and put in KBPT⇒KEDC and it popped out "KBPT DAS V306 TNV KEDC," which is the route I got from ATC under FF the last time I cam back to KBPT from KEDC. Anyway, talking IFR now, when I put that plan into SkyVector, it just recognized "KBPT DAS TNV KEDC." The flight path bypasses V306, but if I add the fix ZMSKL, then the plan follows V306. I am guessing Skyvector does not know Victor airways and that ATC would expect me to stay on V306. The best way for me to do that would be to fly "KBPT DAS ZMSKL TNV KEDC." So why didn't they just say that (KBPT DAS ZMSKL TNV KEDC) in the first place? Yeah, I know: yours is not to reason why, yours is but to do or die (apologies to Tennyson), but I would like to hear some opinions. Because that would not reflect the clearance. Skyvector doesn't recognize Victor airways. That's a limitation in SkyVector. The discrepancy you see is as simple as that. And making the Victor airway into a series of point-to-points, even with bends only, is not always as simple as adding one more fix. Consider my flight last week. One possible route clearance involved following V3 from FLO to SSI. The clearance for that segment would simply be FLO V3 SSI. Check out the same route on Skyvector. Follow that same airway further north and south and you'll find even more bends in both directions You might prefer to copy a clearance that has a 6-fix segment (or 8 or 12) instead of 2 (plus the airway name). But a lot of us wouldn't. Fortunately EFBs such as ForeFlight do understand airways, although the Garmin GNS x30 series does not (the newer GTN does), so you;re still going to have to look at your charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 My next question was going to be: How many of you have one or two VOR receivers and a HH GPS and never use the VORs (except when a CFII is present) to follow a Victor airway. Come on, be honest. Funny you should ask. I decided it was a bad habit to have a perfectly good radio doing nothing. So, one of my goals has been to put something in Nav 2 whether it be the ILS to back up the ILS in Nav 1 (the time my HSI glideslope came in normally and froze in the on-glideslope position as I descended well below was a small prompt ), to put in en enroute VORs as a backup to the GPS, or even VORs adjacent to my route of flight for to keep up monitoring and cross-check skills. Did it on my recent longer trip and, if nothing else, it generated a lack of complacency on my part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awqward Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Just to muddy the water.... You may operate IMC without a clearance in uncontrolled airspace according to the regs if the pilot has an IR and the aircraft is appropriately equipped. Also, military pilots may be familiar with MARSA procedures which is a different animal, but permits IMC operations without an ATC clearance.. Two issues: Uncontrolled airspace is getting tough to find. Who in the civilized world wants to fly IMC without a clearance? 91.173 No person may operate an aircraft in controlled airspace under IFR unless that person has -- (a) Filed an IFR flight plan; and ( Received an appropriate ATC clearance. You may not be surprised to know that here in the UK there is plenty of Class G airspace and flying IFR is normal....but you probably will be surprised to know that no clearance is required to fly IFR (including in IMC) in Class G....in fact there is no requirement to even talk to ATC....it has been that way for over 50 years and there has never been a midair in IMC in Class G.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 .but you probably will be surprised to know that no clearance is required to fly IFR (including in IMC) in Class G.. Yes, that was the thrust of my post. A clearance is only required in CONTROLLED airspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awqward Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The thrust of my post was that it is normal and demonstrably safe to fly IFR in uncontrolled airspace despite the intuitive misgivings.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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