Bladders or Patch+Strip/Reseal (sorry, another thread on this - need advice)

[Mooneymite]

Anyone here with bladders that wishes they could go back?

 

Are you kidding?

 

No way!

 

My aircraft was less than 20 years old when the previous owner gave up on re-seals and did the bladders....the aircraft has now gone more than 20 years without a hint of a leak operating off of a turf runway.  There's no evidence that the bladders are even close to end of life.  If a bladder does leak, I just open the access plates and stuff a new bladder in and hook it up.  Short term, bladders are expensive, long term not so much.

[mike_elliott]

Are you kidding?

 

No way!

 

My aircraft was less than 20 years old when the previous owner gave up on re-seals and did the bladders....the aircraft has now gone more than 20 years without a hint of a leak operating off of a turf runway.  There's no evidence that the bladders are even close to end of life.  If a bladder does leak, I just open the access plates and stuff a new bladder in and hook it up.  Short term, bladders are expensive, long term not so much.

Im curious Gus, if the previous owner did a proper strip and reseal or just patched, do you know? Ill bet if a total strip and reseal were properly done by him, you wouldn't have had to buy bladders

[Mooneymite]

Im curious Gus, if the previous owner did a proper strip and reseal or just patched, do you know? Ill bet if a total strip and reseal were properly done by him, you wouldn't have had to buy bladders

 

Mike, I never bought the bladders.....the previous owner gave up on re-seals and did the installation about 6 years before he sold it to me, so the decision was made for me.  Dumb me, I really didn't even appreciate that the aircraft had bladders when I bought it.  I do now!

 

As far as "what if...."?

 

No clue.  I suspect that the re-seal process back in '92 wasn't as good as it is today.  But had they been resealed instead of "bladderized", that re-seal would be coming up on 23 years old.  With me operating off of turf, I can only guess that I'd be facing another re-seal today.  As it is, the bladders still look perfect and there's no evidence that they will need any attention any time soon.

 

Just speculating, obviously.....

 

With the new sealing processes, I think there are two excellent options for us.  I'm not sure why the bladder/re-seal subject always stirs up so much discussion.  Each group seems happy with their choce, so what's not to like about that!  

[Andy95W]

Mike, I never bought the bladders.....the previous owner gave up on re-seals and did the installation about 6 years before he sold it to me, so the decision was made for me.  Dumb me, I really didn't even appreciate that the aircraft had bladders when I bought it.  I do now!

 

It almost seems like the new autopilot debate. Nearly everybody would like one but nobody wants to pay for it. Best thing may be to let a previous owner make the investment for you.

In the case of 23 year old bladders and the grass strip- Awesome! Especially since you didn't have to pay for them.

[Mooneymite]

 Especially since you didn't have to pay for them.

 

Well, they were included in the negotiated purchase price.  I'm not sure that's the same as not paying for them.  

[rbridges]

Im curious Gus, if the previous owner did a proper strip and reseal or just patched, do you know? Ill bet if a total strip and reseal were properly done by him, you wouldn't have had to buy bladders

 

when Joey Cole installed my bladders, he said that mine had been patched before.

[jetdriven]

Original sealant is almost forty years old. Strip and reseal is 4000 over forty years, or 100$ per year. Fairly cheap and you likely won't own it or care in 30 or 40 years.

Clarence

Isn't a full strip and reseal more like 8-9K? Don't forget the grand in expenses to get it to the place who does the work.

[Hank]

Reseal price depends on tank size. My 52 gal tanks were 6.5 AMU, and took 52.2 gals filled to the caps.

[Mooneymite]

 Hank, if you hadn't been using your tanks to haul moonshine out of WV, they probably would never have needed re-seal.  

 

I understand that stuff is really hard on the sealant.

[Hank]

The whole key is to drink it quickly! Before it can do any damage.

[Guest]

Isn't a full strip and reseal more like 8-9K? Don't forget the grand in expenses to get it to the place who does the work.

Byron,

You are correct about pricing. I only quoted one tank as the OP said only one tank was leaking. As for the other expenses few people ever count the real costs including repositioning the plane and round trip airfare.

Clarence

[Marauder]

I think what attracted me to the bladders is the 6 (8 if you have 64 gallons bladders) being separate compartments. Unless you are dealing with an age issue, replacing 1 bladder instead of trying to find a leak in one big tank was appealing.

[lahso]

I went through a period of patching the tanks (as did the previous owners), which worked temporarily. Eventually, I got tired of patching, fuel smell in the cockpit, and the blue stains. Still glad I made the decision for bladders, and no regrets. However, you need to do what's best for your situation. 

[Tmack1]

I think if I operated off turf bladders would be to only way to go. It think personally it's what ever makes you feel comfortable with the plane me personably I will do strip and seal.

[MB65E]

If The leak is only in one spot, Joey could do a good job of isolating it, and sealing it up. If it's leaking from multiple exit points, it will be harder to guess where it's coming from. I'd dive into it and see if a little PRC will get you by. I've stripped and sealed two tanks leaks with scrapers, scotchbrite, patients, and a little blood/scratches. I don't think the tanks ever leaked after. If you get to the metal, it will seal. It may last a long time. What was the condition of the other tank? If it's really just the one, then fix what needs help.

I'm sure Joey all let you scrape sealant! Lol.

-Matt

[ryoder]

Having mine resealed right now. Will report back next weekend.

[John Pleisse]

Patches have worked well for me over a 17 year run. I have a 1979 201 with the original sealant. There is a trick to it most Mooney service centers know. Fuel rarely (except bottom) leaks, weeps or seeps from the point of the leak. In runs through the wing an often exits someplace else. Rear, inboard leaks are problematic for IA's and must be dealt with because fuel is exposed in the exhaust stream. Somebody jump in and correct me if my understanding of the patch process is incorrect. 

 

The tanks get fully drained, gascollators come off. One or two top inspection plates come off. A soap solution is swabbed over a wide swath of the suspected leak area. The inspection plates are not replaced, but just taped back in place. Then with a vacuum cleaner or air gun, forced, clean air is added from the gascollator or elsewhere to see where soap bubbles come up. Then sealant is more exactly applied to the affected area. This process is money. Guess work and gooping your tank in large areas cost money and time and usually doesn't solve the issue. Patches DO work, if done this way.

 

I have paid $2,800 for 3 patches over 17 years. My tanks don't leak, weep or seep in anyway. If you don't have a huge problem, this is cost and outcome effective. However, as you can see, I have reached my limit of cost effectiveness. I can not devote any more money without a permanent solution. But 17 years is a damn good run.

 

Several have sharply disagreed with me on this board about operation. Sure, don't leave your plane outside with the tanks half empty all the time. You would be begging for problems. My belief is hard-hard landings and high speed-high load taxi turns also work sealant apart. But this is just my own idea. If I take care of the plane this way, I don't get leaks.

 

One other word. If you smell a strong odor of fuel in your interior, you need to seek a permanent solution. 

[mike_elliott]

Patches have worked well for me over a 17 year run. I have a 1979 201 with the original sealant. There is a trick to it most Mooney service centers know. Fuel rarely (except bottom) leaks, weeps or seeps from the point of the leak. In runs through the wing an often exits someplace else. Rear, inboard leaks are problematic for IA's and must be dealt with because fuel is exposed in the exhaust stream. Somebody jump in and correct me if my understanding of the patch process is incorrect. 

 

The tanks get fully drained, gascollators come off. One or two top inspection plates come off. A soap solution is swabbed over a wide swath of the suspected leak area. The inspection plates are not replaced, but just taped back in place. Then with a vacuum cleaner or air gun, forced, clean air is added from the gascollator or elsewhere to see where soap bubbles come up. Then sealant is more exactly applied to the affected area. This process is money. Guess work and gooping your tank in large areas cost money and time and usually doesn't solve the issue. Patches DO work, if done this way.

 

I have paid $2,800 for 3 patches over 17 years. My tanks don't leak, weep or seep in anyway. If you don't have a huge problem, this is cost and outcome effective. However, as you can see, I have reached my limit of cost effectiveness. I can not devote any more money without a permanent solution. But 17 years is a damn good run.

 

Several have sharply disagreed with me on this board about operation. Sure, don't leave your plane outside with the tanks half empty all the time. You would be begging for problems. My belief is hard-hard landings and high speed-high load taxi turns also work sealant apart. But this is just my own idea. If I take care of the plane this way, I don't get leaks.

 

One other word. If you smell a strong odor of fuel in your interior, you need to seek a permanent solution. 

Don Maxwell has an excellent article on patching tanks on his website. The real key is the condition of the original sealer. Are you patching this year's leak, only to have another one or 2 in a year if the sealant is brittle. Heat seems to be the real killer of the factory sealant. Keep your tanks full in the summer and keep the sealant in good shape. I think its an OWT that rough runways cause tank leaks by breaking sealant. Its my understanding heat will kill bladders also. 

[jetdriven]

No one has come forward with a bad bladder on a Mooney and they have been in service for 24 years now. In fact Bonanza guys have original bladders from 1947 on some of their planes and the only thing that often goes bad is the nipple where the fuel drain goes can break off.

I still think that bladders are a lifetime solution while sealant is worry free for 5-10 years but not forever. The downside is the additional weight, but not since the Moon landing missions have people made so big a deal out of 32 lbs.

[Marauder]

The downside is the additional weight, but not since the Moon landing missions have people made so big a deal out of 32 lbs.

And considering most of us could stand to lose 20 to 30 pounds, I think the focus is on the wrong weight gain.

[AndyCapp]

Hi All,

Who is the suppliers of bladders for the mooney.

Andy

[carusoam]

Try this...

I copied sample results from a search of bladder manufacturer...

The search function is at the top right. Use the forums button to define where to search...

-a-

*****************************************

the manufacturer of the O&N bladders to ask the cost for an overhaul, and this is her reply:

Hi O & N is the one who install these little cells. We are the manufactures for O&N and you must buy from them. They will give you the price. Any other fuel cells we can provide for you but these. Sorry….Penney King

O&N number is 570-945-3769 ..

Penney King

[Bob_Belville]

http://www.onaircraft.com/products-services/mooney-bladders/

 

There are several MSC and other shops that are experienced with installing the O & N bladders. If you can't get to one of these the installation should not be that challenging to an experienced A&P. 

[rbridges]

http://www.onaircraft.com/products-services/mooney-bladders/

 

There are several MSC and other shops that are experienced with installing the O & N bladders. If you can't get to one of these the installation should not be that challenging to an experienced A&P. 

 

I thought bladder installation was a little involved.  Has anyone had a local A&P or IA do an O&N bladder installation for them?

[rbridges]

Our local A&P/IA at the time installed our first set of 54 gallon bladders in our C model in the mid 90s, then another local A&P/IA added the 10 extra gallons after they became available around 2005. When it came time to put them in my J, around 2008, I had O&N do it. All three did a good job.

 

no kidding.  I didn't know many people outside of mooney shops and O&N were installing them.