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Update for Mooney WAAS, ADS-B Upgrades for Stec equipped planes


sellis

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I finally got my plane back after implementing SB-305.  It has been 12 weeks since I saw it last.  Not all was due to the WAAS SB.  I was having the prop repainted and on the way to the MSC my STEC pitch servo decided to runaway at 1400 fpm climb of which I promptly broke it with the manual trim wheel getting it back to level flight.  That's a whole other story.  While the servo was in the shop, Mooney released our long awaited SB for WAAS.  I had already decided I would implement it a long time ago so I jump on it right away. 

Southwest Texas Aviation and McKee Avionics in San Marcos, TX did the work.  JD Castell owns SWTA and is great to work with.  He is very anal and keeps you up to date as much as you want through text, phone, and email.  I really like good communication and that is what you get with JD.  Eric McKee's hangar is right next to JD (for this week as Southwest Texas is moving to New Braunfels at the end of this week).  I think it is important to get a tandem of a good MSC and Garmin dealers as both must work closely with Mooney and/or Garmin and STEC as dealers...at least on this first install.  The kit was $18.9K but has since been raised to $20.9K.  I paid 14 hours of install time but yours will probably be less given that mine was going through guinea pig stages. 

We had some delays.  Mooney stopped the process before we started software loading after determining the software was not correct for our vintage GBU and worked with Garmin to get a new version in a week.  There was also some loading errors that had to be solved, and they were.  McKee has a former Mooney test pilot on staff and he is a wiz with specialty of the GX models.  After the software was loaded, Mooney requested to have the gains checked on the 55X so the autopilot was shipped upstate to Genesys and turned around in a couple of days.

The test flight went well and proves the 55X couples and flies the WAAS to minimum without problem.  Given that the SB and certification does not allow for precision flown WAAS approach with the autopilot, a label was applied under the autopilot that states they are not approved.  Hopefully, we will get some new guidance from Mooney about this SB that enables us to stop here and use it as is.

I picked the plane up today and flew several WAAS approaches with my instructor.  We flew a couple to a few feet over the asphalt before going missed and the plane tracks on target every time and puts you right on the numbers.  That along with the synthetic vision makes for a very nice approach.

I am still going through the capabilities but here are some other things I believe this vintage plane will have with the -34 software.

Airways - I tested this and they load easily in the flight planning mode

Import/Export flight plans - not tested yet

Graphical flight planning with the joystick - not tested yet

Two new SD Cards.  Load one and other other is supposed to update from the MFD.  Also, the checklist is now on the bottom Garmin SD cards.

Data Logging - not tested yet.

Overall I am very pleased with this upgrade and how Mooney worked this so well with Garmin and my MSC and Garmin dealer on the field.  I appreciate that Mooney delivered for us....thanks!

Russ

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Thanks Russ I am talking to JD right now about getting this done. Did you have the GTX 345R installed also? I now have XM weather and we are trying to figure out if the 345 will receive FIS-B weather and display it on the G1000, an article in this months Flying magazine says it will he is checking with the avionics shop as we speak.

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1 hour ago, buddy said:

Thanks Russ I am talking to JD right now about getting this done. Did you have the GTX 345R installed also? I now have XM weather and we are trying to figure out if the 345 will receive FIS-B weather and display it on the G1000, an article in this months Flying magazine says it will he is checking with the avionics shop as we speak.

Hey Buddy.  I did not get the GTX345R but did ask McKee for a quote.  He estimated 3 days turnaround once they got the equipment.  While I was there they checked and said that they believed we will get ADSB IN/OUT but not 100% sure on the weather thinking that it requires a new MFD that can display it. I already have XM weather but the ADSB traffic would be nice. When they get back to me on the price I will confirm weather and get back.

Russ

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According to Garmin, the GTX will display ADS-B traffic and weather with the software update to v0401.34. That software version has v14.03 of the GDU (MFD) (minimum v11.12 is required). It will also be able to use the WAAS position source from the WAAS GPS antennas; that means that the version of the GTX 345 without the integral WAAS GPS will work.

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I have a non-WAAS G1000 with the GFC700.   I checked with my MSC and avionics shop about putting in a GTX345R without doing the G1000 WAAS upgrade for now.  They did say that you would, of course, need the WAAS GPS antenna for the GTX.  Garmin says that the GTX345 will show ADSB in on the G1000, but Mooney says it will not.  As of last week, they were still trying to sort it out.  I'd like to have the ADSB in for the traffic, but it isn't that critical for me.  I am planning on putting in the GTX345 now and then updating to WAAS when it will be useful for me.  Right now, I am flying ILS's at most places I go and the difference in minimums in GPS approaches doesn't matter for me with my current personal minimums.   

Thanks for the info @Deb. I'll pass that along and see if that helps my shop.

 

Brad.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Buddy, glad you are getting the upgrade.  I don't think there is much use for the GIA's.  I looked on eBay and they weren't going for much.  Question - are you getting a GTX345R?  I am having problems getting a quote from Garmin dealers.  They seem to be confused in that we do not need the GTX with built-in WAAS.  The new software and GIA's have the WAAS source.  

Russ

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Just now, Danb said:

Hey Russ I have the gtx with the G1000 I had to get the 345 with waas you can get it without, my price was about 7600 or close to that, yours would be less getting the version without waas and hot having to do a antennae, I'd think you could get around $6000 based on install 

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32 minutes ago, buddy said:

Russ we are hoping that the 345R will show the FIS-B weather on the G1000 after installation along with the traffic. I took the plane out to JD and McKee. According to them I had to install the 345R with the wass upgrade.

Mooney told me that with the version you are getting for the GIA v7.6 you will get WAAS from the GIAs.  With GDU v14.02 the MFD will display weather. To get both ADSB in and out you need the GTX345.  You are cutting edge my friend.  Tell Eric to send me the GTX quote he promised.  Ha!

Russ

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/11/2016 at 4:29 PM, buddy said:

Russ we are hoping that the 345R will show the FIS-B weather on the G1000 after installation along with the traffic. I took the plane out to JD and McKee. According to them I had to install the 345R with the wass upgrade.

Congrats to you, Buddy for now having the WAAS upgrade on your STEC and the GTX345 ADS-B IN Out solution.  Please keep us posted with prireps.

Russ

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/26/2016 at 5:55 AM, BradB said:

I have a non-WAAS G1000 with the GFC700.   I checked with my MSC and avionics shop about putting in a GTX345R without doing the G1000 WAAS upgrade for now.  They did say that you would, of course, need the WAAS GPS antenna for the GTX.  Garmin says that the GTX345 will show ADSB in on the G1000, but Mooney says it will not.  As of last week, they were still trying to sort it out.  I'd like to have the ADSB in for the traffic, but it isn't that critical for me.  I am planning on putting in the GTX345 now and then updating to WAAS when it will be useful for me.  Right now, I am flying ILS's at most places I go and the difference in minimums in GPS approaches doesn't matter for me with my current personal minimums.   

Thanks for the info @Deb. I'll pass that along and see if that helps my shop.

 

Brad.

I was informed that it is not possible to install the GTX345R with WAAS without first updating the G1000 to full WAAS capability (at least #2 option from Mooney). The software in the G1000 WAAS upgrade is apparently needed for the 345R to communicate with the G1000. Am I to understand that this is not true? Has anyone with a non-WAAS G1000 placed just the GTX345R with WAAS and had a functional result?

FYI...If what I have been told is true, those of us with non-WAAS G1000 planes will be obligated to a full update to become ADS-B compliment. A quote today for the upgrade (option #2 + GTX345R) is $31.2K. That is 15% of the total worth of the plane to become ADS-B compliment.

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4 hours ago, L. Trotter said:

I was informed that it is not possible to install the GTX345R with WAAS without first updating the G1000 to full WAAS capability (at least #2 option from Mooney). The software in the G1000 WAAS upgrade is apparently needed for the 345R to communicate with the G1000. Am I to understand that this is not true? Has anyone with a non-WAAS G1000 placed just the GTX345R with WAAS and had a functional result?

FYI...If what I have been told is true, those of us with non-WAAS G1000 planes will be obligated to a full update to become ADS-B compliment. A quote today for the upgrade (option #2 + GTX345R) is $31.2K. That is 15% of the total worth of the plane to become ADS-B compliment.

Danb has had the GTX 345R with integral WAAS GPS installed in his S-TEC non-WAAS G1000 Bravo. It works as it should: TIS-B traffic is displayed on the G1000 screens but ADS- B Nexrad is not. Both are displayed on a tablet running Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight via Bluetooth. XM weather is unaffected and still displays on the G1000.

So the Option 2 WAAS upgrade is not necessary for the GTX 345R to be ADS-B out compliant as long as you have the one with the integral WAAS GPSS receiver. You'll have to install an additional GPS antenna for this.

You only need Option 2 if you want WAAS, or if you want the ability to display ADS-B Nexrad on the G1000. Note that this is currently not available – it requires GDU v15.20 of the software which Garmin is just making available. 

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8 hours ago, Deb said:

Danb has had the GTX 345R with integral WAAS GPS installed in his S-TEC non-WAAS G1000 Bravo. It works as it should: TIS-B traffic is displayed on the G1000 screens but ADS- B Nexrad is not. Both are displayed on a tablet running Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight via Bluetooth. XM weather is unaffected and still displays on the G1000.

So the Option 2 WAAS upgrade is not necessary for the GTX 345R to be ADS-B out compliant as long as you have the one with the integral WAAS GPSS receiver. You'll have to install an additional GPS antenna for this.

You only need Option 2 if you want WAAS, or if you want the ability to display ADS-B Nexrad on the G1000. Note that this is currently not available – it requires GDU v15.20 of the software which Garmin is just making available. 

 This is fantastic news.  My information in regards to the full Wass upgrade  requirement came from two  separate Mooney Service Centers. Both  businesses are well respected .  I realize this is a new issue and software compatibility has been questioned. It seems there is no one place that has significant experience with the different plane configurations. I'd like to find out where Danb had the upgrade performed. We need to get this information out to other installers. 

 This news just saved me 24K.  I'm going to make major points with the wife on this one. 

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2 hours ago, L. Trotter said:

 This is fantastic news.  My information in regards to the full Wass upgrade  requirement came from two  separate Mooney Service Centers. Both  businesses are well respected .  I realize this is a new issue and software compatibility has been questioned. It seems there is no one place that has significant experience with the different plane configurations. I'd like to find out where Danb had the upgrade performed. We need to get this information out to other installers. 

 This news just saved me 24K.  I'm going to make major points with the wife on this one. 

As David says, you can use the 345R with its own WAAS antenna like Dan did or you can get the WAAS upgrade which replaces your GIA63 with GIA63W for $24K.  The GIA63W antennas will then be used for the 345R.  One thing I would do though is ask about the antennas.  You might want to see if your GTX345 with WAAS antenna can be reused for the GIA63W if and when you upgrade that else you may have a line of antennas on your roof.

Russ

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This comes from Beechtalk: 

here are the minimum requirements as listed in the install manual for the G950/1000 systems for displaying traffic and weather.

 Traffic shown on specific G950/G1000 through RS-232 with the GDL 90 traffic protocol is software limited (the minimum GDU 1XXX software is v7.10 and the minimum GIA 63X software is v5.31).
 Weather shown on the G950/G1000 through RS-422 with the MX format protocol is software limited (the minimum GDU 1XXX software is v12.00 and the minimum GIA 63X software is v6.20).
 The GTX 3X5R with internal GPS is required if it interfaces to G950/G1000 systems with software versions below GIA 63W version 7.00 and GDU 1XXX v13.00. It is possible to use the GIA 63W as a GPS data source to the GTX for ADS-B compliance.

Let me know if there are any other questions,


_________________
Trek A. Lawler
Supervisor, Garmin Aviation Field Service Engineering
Aviation Product Support
 

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On 1/12/2017 at 2:44 PM, L. Trotter said:

 This is fantastic news.  My information in regards to the full Wass upgrade  requirement came from two  separate Mooney Service Centers. Both  businesses are well respected .  I realize this is a new issue and software compatibility has been questioned. It seems there is no one place that has significant experience with the different plane configurations. I'd like to find out where Danb had the upgrade performed. We need to get this information out to other installers. 

 This news just saved me 24K.  I'm going to make major points with the wife on this one. 

 

My MSC is doing the GTX345r without the full WAAS upgrade:

Dunkirk Avionics and Jamestown Aviation/Chautauqua aircraft in Jamestown, NY.

 

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9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Weather shown on the G950/G1000 through RS-422 with the MX format protocol is software limited (the minimum GDU 1XXX software is v12.00 and the minimum GIA 63X software is v6.20).
 The GTX 3X5R with internal GPS is required if it interfaces to G950/G1000 systems with software versions below GIA 63W version 7.00 and GDU 1XXX v13.00. It is possible to use the GIA 63W as a GPS data source to the GTX for ADS-B compliance.

When Trek posted this, Garmin hadn't described the problem with the FIS-B (ADS-B) Nexrad weather product in v14.xx and v15.xx of the GDU software. It is described in Garmin Service Advisory 1650, dated September 13, 2016 http://garmin.blogs.com/files/1650a.pdf. Here is the entire text of the Service Advisory:

Service Advisory 1650: NEXRAD Data
13 SEPTEMBER 2016

AFFECTED PRODUCTS:
Garmin GTX 345R Transponders interfaced to a G900X, G950, G1000, Cirrus PerspectiveTM, or Embraer ProdigyTM (with GDU software versions 14.00 through 14.04 and 15.00 through 15.12) are affected.

DESCRIPTION:
NEXRAD data is not available when PRECIP is selected.

NOTE
METARS/TAFs will continue to show on the display. Weather and precipitation data will also be available on a portable electronic device via Bluetooth with a Garmin Pilot subscription.

PILOT ACTION:
Rely on other sources for weather precipitation data.

RESOLUTION:
A future GDU software release will correct this issue.

 

Note: The 0401.30 software runs GIA v5.60 and GDU v9.03.

The 0401.34 software runs GIA v7.62 and GDU v14.02. 

So, with the 0401.30 software, TIS (ADS-B) traffic will display on the G1000. No ADS-B weather will be displayed on the G1000. XM weather (including Nexrad) is not affected and will display on the G1000. ADS-B weather and traffic will display on a tablet running Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight via Bluetooth. On non-WAAS G1000 Mooneys a GTX 345R installation will require the version with an internal WAAS GPS receiver and an additional WAAS GPS antenna.

With the WAAS software, the GTX 345R without the internal GPS can be installed since it can get position source from the WAAS GIA 63W units. However, v14.02 of the GDU software precludes display of FIS-B Nexrad weather on the G1000. As above, XM weather does display on the G1000.

According to Garmin's Zach Evans, the Mooney OEM Sales Manager, v15.20 of the GDU software resolves this issue. He said this version was made available to the OEMs in December, 2016.

Edit: As Lance correctly notes below, Trek had posted today. I had recalled a similar post from Trek in February, 2016. My apologies.

Edited by Deb
Correction
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