Update for Mooney WAAS, ADS-B Upgrades for Stec equipped planes

[LANCECASPER]

22 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

The first year for G1000 was 2006, I read.   Mooney built 64 Ovations and 20 Bravos that year, says http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm
 

That's 'sort-of' confirmed by a market review saying Mooney built a total of 75 planes in 2006 and 79 in 2007 -- see http://www.aia-aerospace.org/assets/ff_08_production.pdf

Then production ceased in 2008.   

So there may have been about 140 G1000/STEC planes built as Mike-Elliot recalls. 

 

That mooneyevents link shows 64 GX (G-1000) Ovations built in 2005 and 20 GX Bravos, so that's 84 G-1000 airplanes with STEC autopilots built in '05.

I think some of the Mooneys in 2006 were with the GFC700 autopilots.

I believe all Mooneys in 2007 were all Garmin GFC700 autopilots.

I think production ceased in 2009. http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1431081/2009-mooney-acclaim-type-s

[Txbyker]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

That mooneyevents link shows 64 GX (G-1000) Ovations built in 2005 and 20 GX Bravos, so that's 84 G-1000 airplanes with STEC autopilots built in '05.

I think some of the Mooneys in 2006 were with the GFC700 autopilots.

I believe all Mooneys in 2007 were all Garmin GFC700 autopilots.

I think production ceased in 2009. http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1431081/2009-mooney-acclaim-type-s

Thanks for that.  I was looking at the link and if Mooney does serial number, "serially" then M20R 0345-0407 = 53.  But I was looking up SB M20-305 which was released later in the decade giving GFC700's a WAAS upgrade path and that started at serial number 29-0486.  If so then perhaps from 0345 to 0486 there were about 141 M20R's built with STEC.  Add 20 Bravos and that's near 160 total.  Probably for Mooney investment purposes they would need to group in the GFC700 non-WAAS to measure the total amount of installed base owners that are quite concerned about costs and upgrade paths.  

Russ

[Danb]

On May 18, 2016 at 0:56 PM, Jerry 5TJ said:

How about a market-driven price estimation? 

What is the difference in price between a stock 2006 G1000 Ovation and a similar plane with the WAAS upgrade? 

Isn't it about $50K?  

Jerry it appears for the last few years our planes have already been discounted for not having WAAS.  Basically if you were to buy a G1000 a Mooney today at the discounted price then install the GFC and waas you'd have a great plane at a proper price. Folks have been installing smaller avionics i.e. 500 or G 600 with two WAAS radios for a similiar but screens half the size. I'm not saying anything against the other units except to point out if you upgrade to WAAS in the G1000, in my opinion you'd have awesome avionics. As I stated in an earlier post I still would not trade my G 1000 for another setup, my only beef is with Mooney/Garmin for not providing what is the expected normal. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 hour ago, Danb said:

Jerry it appears for the last few years our planes have already been discounted for not having WAAS.  Basically if you were to buy a G1000 a Mooney today at the discounted price then install the GFC and waas you'd have a great plane at a proper price. Folks have been installing smaller avionics i.e. 500 or G 600 with two WAAS radios for a similiar but screens half the size. I'm not saying anything against the other units except to point out if you upgrade to WAAS in the G1000, in my opinion you'd have awesome avionics. As I stated in an earlier post I still would not trade my G 1000 for another setup, my only beef is with Mooney/Garmin for not providing what is the expected normal. 

Yes, Dan, as you say the non WAAS planes are discounted compared to their siblings with WAAS. 

I expressed myself poorly -- I was suggesting that the value/cost of WAAS upgrade has already been set by the marketplace.  If it were only worth $20K that's what the non-WAAS G1000 planes would be discounted relative to the same plane with WAAS.   As it is buyers apparently have set a value of around $50K for the upgrade.   One could argue that's what you need to expect to pay to implement that upgrade, or more.  Not less.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Danb]

Jerry...agreed

[Samurai Husky]

When i talked with the mooney reps at the last expo (last weekend); they said they are certifying WAAS for the STEC 55x HOWEVER, it will not be legal for it to fly an ILS approach, it will need to be stick flown. However, the capability will be there. He said the last time he was at the factory, they were already flying the retrofit plane and running tests. 

At least that was what i was told; Sorry if this was already said and i missed it. 

 

[Jeff_S]

Good thing the A/P can't read the fine print!

[Robert C.]

7 hours ago, Samurai Husky said:

When i talked with the mooney reps at the last expo (last weekend); they said they are certifying WAAS for the STEC 55x HOWEVER, it will not be legal for it to fly an ILS approach, it will need to be stick flown. However, the capability will be there. He said the last time he was at the factory, they were already flying the retrofit plane and running tests. 

At least that was what i was told; Sorry if this was already said and i missed it. 

 

Hmm...are you sure he said ILS?

we can fly that now fully coupled without WAAS as it is not a GPS approach.

Did he say LPV by any chance?

great news if they have the test flight program going. Who was it you spoke with?

thanks for sharing.

[Samurai Husky]

Maybe LVP; Since im still a student i dont know anything about the IFR stuff. 

But it was a direct question about waas and auto pilot etc. Since i said i was looking at Ovation2's and didnt want to have to pay 40k to upgrade and that there were very few planes that had been upgraded. I think he was the founder of Delta Aviation representing Mooney at the show. We talked for about 15 minutes before I had to go. I think the mooney and the Cirrus Jet were getting the most attention at the show. Im trying to remember since it was last week. But he said that the plane they retrofitted was maybe some guys named 'lee' i think? He said the name like i should know who it was... But of course i just nodded my head like a bobble doll. I could be totally wrong on the names. You have to remember, i was looking at the planes just before i was about to take my solo check ride. So i was just doing things to calm down a bit. 

[Robert C.]

Ok, thanks for the info.

 

[N350ka]

Has anyone heard anything Since the last posting on this thread? 
It caught my eye by chance and has now scared me about the possibilities/Price of upgrading as I'm one of those 20 STEC G1000 bravos and Id like to have WAAS as I'm finding a disproportionate number of ILS's vs ILS permanently out of service Notams. 

The other thing that worries me about the more recent posts Is who Samurai Husky talked to. If its the person I think it is, I wouldn't trust what he's said. He tried selling me an Mooney that ended up being pretty grossly misrepresented I have 0 Trust for anything said by the brothers running Delta aviation who shall remain unnamed. Im not sure about other peoples experiences but in my opinion used car salesmen have more integrity. 

On May 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Samurai Husky said:

Maybe LVP; Since im still a student i dont know anything about the IFR stuff. 

But it was a direct question about waas and auto pilot etc. Since i said i was looking at Ovation2's and didnt want to have to pay 40k to upgrade and that there were very few planes that had been upgraded. I think he was the founder of Delta Aviation representing Mooney at the show. We talked for about 15 minutes before I had to go. I think the mooney and the Cirrus Jet were getting the most attention at the show. Im trying to remember since it was last week. But he said that the plane they retrofitted was maybe some guys named 'lee' i think? He said the name like i should know who it was... But of course i just nodded my head like a bobble doll. I could be totally wrong on the names. You have to remember, i was looking at the planes just before i was about to take my solo check ride. So i was just doing things to calm down a bit. 

That aside, it seems to me Mooney is too excited about their new endeavors to provide good support for some of their past ones. 

[keithmiller]

Anyone going to Oshkosh next week that has an affected model? If so dr Chen was there all week last year . I have talked with him a couple of times at restaurants here in KERRVILLE . I hope to see him this year if so I suggest if your there please do the same .

[Ovation3]

First let me start out by how awful Mooney is on communicating through the web site. Now let me be as clear as I can since I see so much misinformation on this topic. The waas upgrade for aircraft with g1000 and gfc700 can be done for 17k hardware purchase and 2-3k for install. This upgrade did not involve replacing the mfd for the enroute Vnav function, if you want that it is another 10k. So for full waas approaches around 20k will do it. If you want synthetic vision the unlock card is 11k. If you want that fancy enroute Vnav function which replaces the mfd another 10k. 

So let's break this down, the prices to replace each navcom for waas is roughly 12-14k x 2 if you replace both in a non g1000 Mooney. For. 20k I replace 2 Gia63 for 2 gia63w which included install.  All this can be confirmed by calling Mooney parts, and these are current prices, I did my purchase and install January of 2016. 

So now quit the wining and do the upgrade. 

Blaine Hoffman, owner of a 2006 Ovation3 that I have had for 8yrs.

 

 

 

[Ovation3]

Well I just realized I was talking to g1000 with stec thread.  Well a little humble pie is good once and a while. 

Regard, 

Blaine Hoffman

[Robert C.]

On July 23, 2016 at 5:01 PM, keithmiller said:

Anyone going to Oshkosh next week that has an affected model? If so dr Chen was there all week last year . I have talked with him a couple of times at restaurants here in KERRVILLE . I hope to see him this year if so I suggest if your there please do the same .

Any luck cornering him and getting more of a commitment?

[keithmiller]

11 hours ago, Robert C. said:

Any luck cornering him and getting more of a commitment?

I will be there starting today and will give a new post if I get to discuss the topic

[Bob5151F]

Does anyone know how many of us are stranded non-WAAS G1000s with STEC autopilots?

The timing is important as we face ILS cand VOR closures and it impacts the ADS-B solution for us as well.

My guess is about 100 Ovations and Bravos.

I've been checking with Mooney every 3 months or so and everytime the story changes. I really think they don't care about us.

Should we up the ante? Do a class action suit to compel them to act? Take out an advertisement in MAPA log (if they would run it) or Flying and embarrass them into doing something?

[Deb]

Bob,

We spoke with Mooney (in person) at the end of June, and (tried to?) share our (STEC G1000 owners) concerns. Unfortunately, Tom Bowen had been called out of town and didn't meet with us. We did meet with Dirk Vander Zee (new VP Sales and Marketing) and Paul Kehner.

Mooney does not know how many of us there are; we agree with you that there are perhaps 125 of us or so – some may have opted for the $40,000 upgrade available in 2009-2010. Tom said he was committed to the project when we spoke with him at Sun-n-Fun in 2015. Our take is that Mooney has focused on other priorities (M10 and the Ultras). 

In addition to the STEC G1000 Mooneys, the rest of the pre-2013 G1000 Mooneys are still using the October 2008 software. As far as we can tell, Mooney hasn't looked into making the latest version of the software (v0401.34, circa 2014) available to those airframes. There is also the issue of ADS-B compliance. 

It's probably premature to consider legal action, but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if we identified each other in order to voice our concerns and opinions as a group. There are several of us who have posted in the thread, and a handful in Australia. 

Best,

David & Debbie 

[Bob5151F]

Thanks for the reply. I agree that going legal is premature. I'm just frustrated that I can't get a commitment from them. It's been a couple p]of years now. Count me in on any efforts to push them into action.

I've also run into an issue on ADS-B. I have been looking into the Garmin 345R with it's own WAAS to solve the compliance issue assuming Mooney leaves us stranded on WAAS. Seems they need to release an updated software (I'm on -30) for that to display  the ADS-B WX on the MFD.

What do you think of an ad in MAPA log asking all stranded STEC users to identify themselves to get a group going?

[buddy]

I have a 2005 M20R with the G1000 With an STEC 55X and I am also looking for a solution from Mooney.  It almost sounds like they are not going going to do anything about it. Does Mooney ever read and respond to Mooeyspace?

[Danb]

On July 26, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Ovation3 said:

First let me start out by how awful Mooney is on communicating through the web site. Now let me be as clear as I can since I see so much misinformation on this topic. The waas upgrade for aircraft with g1000 and gfc700 can be done for 17k hardware purchase and 2-3k for install. This upgrade did not involve replacing the mfd for the enroute Vnav function, if you want that it is another 10k. So for full waas approaches around 20k will do it. If you want synthetic vision the unlock card is 11k. If you want that fancy enroute Vnav function which replaces the mfd another 10k. 

So let's break this down, the prices to replace each navcom for waas is roughly 12-14k x 2 if you replace both in a non g1000 Mooney. For. 20k I replace 2 Gia63 for 2 gia63w which included install.  All this can be confirmed by calling Mooney parts, and these are current prices, I did my purchase and install January of 2016. 

So now quit the wining and do the upgrade. 

Blaine Hoffman, owner of a 2006 Ovation3 that I have had for 8yrs.

 

 

 

Ok. Blaine how does that help those whiners who have a G1000 with stec autopilot, read the threads before calling us out as whiners. I've been grilling Mooney for 10 years now with no result!

Also since I have been the 10 yrs or so (2005 Bravo),I may be in minority but I'm ready to consider a fight or legal action, it's been to damn long, I'll be surprised if the company does anything, I resolved the Adsb situation although I need to use the iPad for certain functions until they upgrade the software as D/D mentioned. I'm fed up with the Mooney company and am fueled to move forward. I'm considering leaving the Mooney family after 30 years. 

[Danb]

14 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

See Blaine's next post, Dan.  He acknowledged his mistake. 

Jim

Sorry..missed it I got to riled up with the Mooney Co., just ruined another day

[keithmiller]

I did speak with mooney at their booth at Oshkosh , they said we are behind but plan on the solution coming in the future . Time frame was uncertain , the bad news is fully coupled approach along with WASS , ADSB we could be looking at 40 grand or more and I think that included the gfc 700... Needless to say I was very shocked 

[jetdriven]

I think the total LRU replacement, replacing both screens, and installing the GFC700 is around 80 grand.  Which it out this galaxy ridiculous for an airplane the cost 600K and is only 8 years old. 

[Txbyker]

I think only the old Mooney Service Center was the only entity legal to rip out the STEC and replace with a GFC700.  Does anyone know if the Ultra has FAA approval yet?  I would bet they don't care about much else till that happens.  Without it, not much of a future.  Not defending their silence just trying to understand what they may be thinking.  

Russ