Raptor05121 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 No, not the one you drink. Statement of Demonstrated Ability through the FAA. I was born with amblyopia, so my brain doesn't really look out of my right eye. I believe I have 20/200 right and 20/15 left. I can shoot a bird off a fence at 100 yards but it doesn't help that I'll have an issue chasing my medical. I have spoken to Dr. Bruce Chein who said this: "Alex, you need to go to an AME who has some "horsepower". What we do is certify you "valid for student purposes only" and you begin flight training. After you have done your long cross country, the CFI endorses you to fly solo to the FSDO for a "defetive vision operational checkride". The referral takes about six weeks from the time of your medical, and you can tell the AME at that time (usually best if you write a letter and send direct to Ok City) at which FSDO you wish to take the operational check. The ride is about 20 minutes, Take off, landing, spotting traffic, picking an emergency field of landing etc. There are over 1,000 ATPs who have monovision, on part 121 Fight Decks. Then you train normally. After you are capable of being a reliable XC PIC, you get the appointment at the FSDO (They already possess a waiver certificate and an unrestricted medical, same class as you were issued) and if you pass the 20 minute ride, they hand you the wavier and the replacement medical certificate that has no "valid for student purposes only" restriction on it. If you cannot see 20/200 at 20 feet (the "E"), you need to take this approach. They pretty much do this over 20/60 in the weak eye. An AME who is unaware of this process will simply defer you. Then you wait 105 days for instruction. Not a good deal. -Bruce"I called my local AME and he said he can't do anything because the student pilot certificate and 3rd class are one in the same. He referred me to contact the Orlando FSDO and see what I have to do to accomplish a SODA. My 2 concerns are: What kind of limits will I have on my medical? I hope I'll be able to do some night flying. How am I supposed to demonstrate ability to fly if I cannot log solo hours due to not having a medical? Seems like a Catch-22. -Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yes I am... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Rap..I have the exact disorder....I have no limitations on my soda, I contacted the Philadelphia Fisdo and went up with an examiner, they said expect about an hour for them to ascertain if my eyesight could be accepted, I do have side vision in my left eye but 20/400 also..after about 20 minutes the examiner stated I could see better than him with both eyes open then the soda was issued.,when you go for your physicals you need it, also the nurse doing the eye check you have to continually remind her that you do not need any test that utilizes your bad eye. My soda says "no useful vision in left eye" which is not true since I have side vision but I in no way questioned it since it was issued. BTW that was over 30 yrs ago. You can contact me if you like ...but since you see like a hawk on one eye expect no problem..its out of the AME's hand. Also you are required to keep it with you along with your medical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Zuffoletto Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I have one for defective color vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Alex..my e mail...danbbcpa@comcast.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Joe did you have any problem getting your soda...since mine was so easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Thanks Dan. I'll keep this on the forums so I can keep track. Given yours was so long ago, I would expect some change to have been done since then. Do I need to find an AME that is familiar with this to get my student pilot endorsement so I can log some flight time? I obviously cannot do a medical checkride with the FAA if I don't have any flight experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Alex..I think the procedure is still the same, I started my lessons without a medical and when my instructor felt I could fly ready to solo I contacted the FSDO and arranged for the flight, I Lost no time in training or other than a scared day with the examiner no problem, no restrictions on night or anything else..I'm rather certain but not for sure I'd only qualify for the 3rd class med. Not sure about 2nd class since it did not matter I was quite happy that was over 3000 mooney hours ago so I doubt the soda hurt me a bit..good luck and don't give up..just a little hassle maybe Joe Z could chime in if he had any difficulty. You can see he flys an Acclaim and I a Bravo GX so go fo it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Warn your eye doc about the length of FAA forms to fill out. Post cataracts surgery, my doc spent an hour filling out the forms for my medical. At 20/200 and 20/15, that shouldn't make you a SODA candidate, can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I think it will make you acquiring a soda if you exceed 20/60 uncorrectable you fail...trust me.i been there. But a soda is no big deal your AME has selling you forever is a big deal, as stated above the AME doesn't even check my left eye..otherwise I'd fail the eye test I had one AME I got into it with requested he determine what a soda was act accordingly..I sat in his office for two hours his secretary contacted Ok city and then I had my physical..I'm going from De to Fl because my AME moved to the Villiages so it's worth it to mr not to be hassled by AME's who are incompetent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 No, not the one you drink. Statement of Demonstrated Ability through the FAA. I was born with amblyopia, so my brain doesn't really look out of my right eye. I believe I have 20/200 right and 20/15 left. I can shoot a bird off a fence at 100 yards but it doesn't help that I'll have an issue chasing my medical. I have spoken to Dr. Bruce Chein who said this: "Alex, you need to go to an AME who has some "horsepower". What we do is certify you "valid for student purposes only" and you begin flight training. After you have done your long cross country, the CFI endorses you to fly solo to the FSDO for a "defetive vision operational checkride". The referral takes about six weeks from the time of your medical, and you can tell the AME at that time (usually best if you write a letter and send direct to Ok City) at which FSDO you wish to take the operational check. The ride is about 20 minutes, Take off, landing, spotting traffic, picking an emergency field of landing etc. There are over 1,000 ATPs who have monovision, on part 121 Fight Decks. Then you train normally. After you are capable of being a reliable XC PIC, you get the appointment at the FSDO (They already possess a waiver certificate and an unrestricted medical, same class as you were issued) and if you pass the 20 minute ride, they hand you the wavier and the replacement medical certificate that has no "valid for student purposes only" restriction on it. If you cannot see 20/200 at 20 feet (the "E"), you need to take this approach. They pretty much do this over 20/60 in the weak eye. An AME who is unaware of this process will simply defer you. Then you wait 105 days for instruction. Not a good deal. -Bruce" I called my local AME and he said he can't do anything because the student pilot certificate and 3rd class are one in the same. He referred me to contact the Orlando FSDO and see what I have to do to accomplish a SODA. My 2 concerns are: What kind of limits will I have on my medical? I hope I'll be able to do some night flying. How am I supposed to demonstrate ability to fly if I cannot log solo hours due to not having a medical? Seems like a Catch-22. -Alex Alex, Call Dr. Frank Browning, an AME in Spruce Creek, and a retired ophthalmologist. He has a lot of "horsepower" with the FAA, in particular, Susan Northrup and others in the Southeast. He was instrumental in helping me get my 2nd class medical back. A great guy, will give you a medical exam in his hanger where he keeps his V tail Bo, and is very reasonable to boot. (386) 451-2524 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I hate to dash your hope but there is a reason why FAA allows ATP pilots with mono vision or had one or even two amputated legs (with well fitted prothesis of course) to fly is because they are operating with another pilot and in fact, their medical only allow them to operate in two crew situations! When you are the only pilot - recreation or commercial - it is actually much harder to get a medical with any form of disability and the process of getting one is often long and arduous. Also if your eye condition is deemed as a progressive one (I believe ambylopia is one) then your medical will be issued with much shorter valid period, forcing you to go back to your ophthalmologist for review. Also no agricultural / mustering allowed (hard to do in a Mooney, I guess). So you have to ask yourself is it all worth it? What's the risk and how long do you think you can continue to renew your medical successfully? It may well hurt a lot if you are unable to fly after spending tens of thousands $$ or found out you have no means of advancing your flying career - if that's what you are aiming for - because you aren't allowed to operate in an one-crew commercial environment. Ultimately, are you actually safe to fly? The ophthalmologist examination only tells you how good your are in reading letters from distance (VA) and how much you can actually see (VF). That's what check ride is for. Nevertheless, the check ride is often done under ideal weather condition with you perfectly rested (hopefully) and less stressed knowing there is a qualified pilot on your right to take over if there is an issue. What happens if you fly under less than ideal circumstances? Have you ever sat in the cockpit when the visibility is marginal or at night? ps. I am all for getting a competent AME but I do not think it's healthy to think that the only competent AMEs are the ones that pass you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Tommy I agree..having my condition does in fact what you mentioned, but I have never had aspirations to be a professional pilot therefore in the USA you can get a third class even with only one eye in your head...you have to have a ride with the FAA Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA)... No big deal..but having to try to get past physicals every 2 yrs with this situation is silly..when there is a mechanism in place for to prove we are competent via flight review ..for my past 16 physicals I just provide my soda # and then worry about everything else like heart hypertension etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Maybe I should start a new thread for this but it is eye related. 3rd class calls for 20/40 or better (all the others 20/20)corrected. Now, mention was made of cataract surgery. With that being so prevalent today with us "older" pilots, can someone chime in on what the process is? Is it like any other surgery in that once you recover you can continue flying until your next medical (self-certify) and then report it on your next medical? Most of the time, vision is 20/40 or better after that surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 FAA policy now allows pilots who have had cataract surgery with an IOL and those who wear bifocal or multifocal contact lenses to get a medical certificate. you will need to wait 90 days after your cataract and IOL procedure before applying for a medical. your optometrist complete an FAA Report of Eye Evaluation (FAA Form 8500-7) before your flight physical. The AME can sign you off for your medical certificate as long as there are no complications or adverse side effects and your vision meets the standards for the class of medical certificate you want. ref AOPA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 ps. I am all for getting a competent AME but I do not think it's healthy to think that the only competent AMEs are the ones that pass you... While Frank Browning is very competent and has the juice to keep paperwork from sitting on someones' desk while they are on break, etc., he will not give you a "parker" physical. As this is his specialty, he will have answers, suggestions and advice you may find beneficial, along with clearing a legal, proper path for you to fly if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F-1968 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am a senior AME in the Boston area. You can train and learn how to fly with an instructor. When ready, you can take your flight test with the FAA to obtain your SODA. There are pilots with SODA's for monocular vision. You should not have a problem provided you can show your ability to fly the airplane and meet expected flight standards. The SODA (literally "Statement of Demonstrated Ability") is a provision to obtain a waiver for a stable medical condition. You can call me if you need some help going through the process. My cell is (617) 877-0025. John Breda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Guys, you are awesome! Thanks to all who commented. I will begin making some phone calls on Monday. My training starts this weekend and I have cash in hand, ready to fly so I don't think the solo will be much too long from now hence why I'm trying to get this ball of a paperwork rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Zuffoletto Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Joe did you have any problem getting your soda...since mine was so easy? No, mine was a piece of cake. Just had to pass a light gun test on the tarmac of San Jose airport (KSJC) during mid day. I took the test with one other guy. We had to correctly identify the color of a light gun fired from the tower 1,500' away (red, green or white). There were about a dozen shots for us to identify. We gave different answers on 3 of them but we still both passed. I always thought that was kind of funny. I can't think of a single time in 30 years of flying that I've been hampered by my colorblindness, which is quite severe, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Did some more checking with AOPA Medical and was told that if you have CAT surgery and DO NOT use multifocal lens you only need to wait 30 days and have your Doc assure you that you are seeing 20/40 or better to go flying (self-certify). If you use multifocal you need the 90 days. Then you have to get the FAA eye form filled out for your NEXT physical and bring it in. Can anyone comment on this? Looks like they are saying you don't have to get a new physical before you can fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 It takes a certain level of drive to be able to fly. There will always be hurdles.... The air force liked to cut potential applicants by using the 20/20 eye test. They would save money by not training everyone. Always search for the proper answer. If the FAA requires a particular test. Find the right doctor that can document the test properly. If you are not sure of the right tests... Consider the AOPA group. They may even have it on their website... Or point you in the right direction by calling them. Do this to get a solid opinion to what you have heard above. They want you to be a successful pilot, as do we. Medical challenges are in our future. Getting proper care and resolution is our personal challenge. Fortunately we can get help to get the solid answers that we need... Good luck with your training, being qualified to solo is one of life's coolest uplifting events... What level of flying are you looking to achieve? My preference is Private Pilot with an instrument rating... I got my first pair of glasses in my first semester of AFROTC. No longer capable of being a fighter pilot I left the ROTC program. Then I found out perfect un corrected eyesight isn't required to fly in the AF either... I wish I had sought better guidance at that time... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 ......... The air force liked to cut potential applicants by using the 20/20 eye test. They would save money by not training everyone..... Always search for the proper answer.... I got my first pair of glasses in my first semester of AFROTC. No longer capable of being a fighter pilot I left the ROTC program. Then I found out perfect un corrected eyesight isn't required to fly in the AF either... -a- Several thoughts..... It's a bitch trying to find your popped out contact lens, or clean your fogged over glasses in a high G dog fight. It requires much more than 20/20 eyesight to become a fighter pilot. Staying informed with good information is critical for success in most all endeavors. If your eyesight slips some after earning your wings you can still fly. Back in the '70s there were some limited waivers for Academy graduates, former F-4 navigators, and ex POWs. Then the UPT waiver was up to 20/40. Even today a special waiver is required for applicants with LASAK surgery. If you were allowed to start out with poor eyesight the odds of it getting worse were much higher higher than if you started out with better eyesight. Depth perception, refractive error, color acuity and other measures were and are critical as well. The military eyesight requirements for flight training are neither arbitrary nor a cost cutting measure. Millions of dollars in training, hundreds of millions in plane values, and peoples lives are at stake. Rock on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Gary, I oversimplified the economic issue while trying to get to the more simple issue. I think the question is more "can I fly?" than "why doesn't a monocular person fly fighter jets." What type of flying does the new pilot want to be? "There are over 1,000 ATPs who have monovision, on part 121 Fight Decks." Private pilot with one eye seems to be an acceptable route. It will take additional effort to find a strategy that works in the 3-D environment. Driving to the airport will have many of the same challenges. On another note... Do troop transport and cargo plane slots use the same eyesight requirements? Glasses OK here? Fighter pilot requirements are impressive and somewhat unique including sitting height. Medicals come in three levels or classes from Class III for private pilots... Some of us are not very familiar with the SODA. Others are not familiar with the SI (special issuance). Either way, we can expect that a new pilot will be discouraged along the way. I recomend he seek good guidance to make sure he is aware of what he needs and how to get it. Watching old guys get their wings back after a medical challenge is wonderful. Seeing a young guy or new guy being able to overcome a disability is pretty cool too. Aim High new guy!, Best regards, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Mike Elliot, thanks for the recommendation to Dr. Browning, I spoke with him just a moment ago and he is fully aware of my hurdle and has given me some explicit instructions to pass it with flying colors. He has informed that I do my medical online filing and Wednesday I have an appointment with him and using my online comfirmation code, he will issue me a student pilot certificate per my medical exam. From there I can do my training and get ready for a SODA ride. I'll keep everyone informed and thanks for the tips! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 ALEX...GO FOR IT!!! I WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS AWHILE AGO AND STILL FLY..ITS HOPEFULLY A LIFE LONG COMMITMENT...WHEN I WAS A KID I WATCHED SKYKING GOT HOOKED ALL THE REST IS HISTORY. I'M VERY HAPPY YOU DID NOT QUIT,. IT SHOWS HOW HELPFUL MOONEYSPACE CAN BE FOR DIFFERING TOPICS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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