Flaps wont retract

[ryoder]

The hydraulic flaps on my 65C stuck at full after a landing at home today. They were still stuck two hours later. Happened before with full flaps but they came back up in a minute or two.

Any ideas?

[carusoam]

The system is a valve and a spring...

Check to see if the valve is working...

Check to see if the spring can overcome the friction...

That's the best I can come up with.

Best regards,

-a-

[furledd]

There are 2 springs that pull up the flaps and it forces back the fluid to the reservoir when you flip the return handle up and open a valve.
 
I am guessing that the control wire for the return valve is broken, or there is something plugged in the return line.
 
Here is the section in the 67 service manual that shows how it all works.

Mooney flap system.pdf

[ryoder]

Thanks guys. Ill let my mechanic know. He is a general A&P IA.

[N601RX]

You should be able to give a gentle tug on the inboard part to see if there stuck or the spring is broken. It's also likely the "lawn mower" type cable is broken or has slipped in the screw that holds it. You can remove the front belly panel and see if it is actually moving the arm on the valve or not.

[ryoder]

Just to be clear these are hydraulic. I tried cycling the valve many times and it didn't help. Also tried pulling up on the flaps a little.

[N601RX]

Unless the fluid has jelled it is likely either the cable broken or the screw that holds the arm on. If you look at the attachement a few post above on page 6-15 you can see the screw and arm. The cable attaches to the end of the arm.

[ryoder]

I wonder if it jelled a bit because it was bitter cold here in Florida at 50 degrees.

[47U]

Not sure where your airplane has been geographically since '65 (I'm not implying that FL is subject to corrosion), but the lawn mower cable does corrode after time and needs to be taken out of the airplane, soaked in solvent, dissasembled, scrub the inner wire down with a wire brush or (multiple) scotchbrite pads and put back into the airplane. My '63 C had a mysterious 'extra spring' installed on the retraction arm under the belly to help the arm swing to relieve the hydraulic pressure and retract the flaps. After cleaning up the retraction cable, all was right with the world without the help from the extra spring.

If you need a replacement, call LASAR first. They'll fix you up with an airworthy solution whatever your problem. Dan is the man.

To clarify, the spring was on the side to help close the valve so the flaps wouldn't bleed up to the retracted position. If you have not pulled your belly panel yet, it sounds like the wire is broken or not connected to the valve.

[ryoder]

Thanks. Now if I pull up on the flaps with a partner on the other side and they still don't budge doesn't that imply that it's a hydraulic pressure blockage problem?

The Mooney lived in Minnesota in a hangar for 63 years and has been in FL less than two but was outside for a year.

I'll go to the hangar and play with it again today and pull the belly panel off.

[Wildhorsesracing]

The valve or the flap cylinder would be the only things that can limit the flaps from retracting. 

[yvesg]

Thanks. Now if I pull up on the flaps with a partner on the other side and they still don't budge doesn't that imply that it's a hydraulic pressure blockage problem?

The Mooney lived in Minnesota in a hangar for 63 years and has been in FL less than two but was outside for a year.

I'll go to the hangar and play with it again today and pull the belly panel off.

So your Mooney lived in a hangar for 63 and about two more in Florida... that means it is a 1950 Mooney? Don't think so... must be a typo right?

Yves

[ryoder]

Hah! Yeah it's old. No it was hangared until about two years ago then flown to Florida and left outside for a year and then I had it in a shade hangar and now a full hangar. It's fifty years old.

[N201MKTurbo]

I agree with previous posts. It can only be the cable from the little flap lever to the arm on the pump is messed up, or there is a blockage at your bleed screw. Pull the panel below the pump and look at the cable and arm and make sure it is moving OK and through the correct arc. If it is then screw the bleed screw out a couple of turns and see if the flaps go up. They should go up very fast. If they do then readjust the bleed rate, your flaps are working.

[carusoam]

Also get the procedure to set the flap retract rate while on the ground...

You don't want them snapping back to fast on a go around...

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

Hah! Yeah it's old. No it was hangared until about two years ago then flown to Florida and left outside for a year and then I had it in a shade hangar and now a full hangar. It's fifty years old.

It may be completely normal. According to adds I've seen on TV, lots of things won't go up after forty years of age.

Clarence

[ryoder]

The POH says "If you have extension lasting more than four hours, see your mechanic."

[Mooneymite]

Spring loaded to the up position?

Mooney innovation at its best.

[garytex]

I had my bleed screw adjusted where the flaps came up very slowly. Then occasionally they wouldn't come up at all until you had lifted the flap lever a couple three times. My mechanic then open the bleed screw one half turn and the flaps roar up,and never stick down. On the other side of the coin now they very slowly bleed up from the extended position and I suspect I may have to go into the pump or slave cylinder itself. Damn the bad luck.

[triple8s]

It may be completely normal. According to adds I've seen on TV, lots of things won't go up after forty years of age.

Clarence

 

Clarence? The little blue pill aint gonna help him get this up!

[Guest]

Clarence? The little blue pill aint gonna help him get this up!

There is a blue button on the Cirrus prospective, I think it's for "self erecting" ..........err "self righting". Mooney never installed that function.

Clarence

[ryoder]

I had my bleed screw adjusted where the flaps came up very slowly. Then occasionally they wouldn't come up at all until you had lifted the flap lever a couple three times. My mechanic then open the bleed screw one half turn and the flaps roar up,and never stick down. On the other side of the coin now they very slowly bleed up from the extended position and I suspect I may have to go into the pump or slave cylinder itself. Damn the bad luck.

That sucks. I hope that is not what I end up with.

[pinerunner]

I remember something like this when I first got my M20E. I was fiddling with the flaps on the ground, I think extending them and then going out to look at it all. I extended four pumps and then came up against the maximum extension limit. I had used a little more force force than maybe I ought to have and anyway it was reluctant to retract when I returned the little valve switch to the "flaps up" position. After waiting a bit and worrying that I was already going to need a mechanic so soon after buying my "new" plane it finally was able to retract again. I learned that, at least with my E, its a bad idea to extend the flaps all the way and if you should feel it reaching the "stop" for god's sake don't try to push any further. Putting extra pressure into that hydraulic system seems to make something stick. I don't know if its a quirk of my plane or if they're all like that.

 

It would make me cautious about letting someone else fly it, especially if they'd never flown older aircraft. Some people expect everything to be foolproof.

[Wildhorsesracing]

FYI - I used to always park my plane with the flaps extended to allow folks easier to enter/exit my plane but found that the hot summers can cause the fluid to expand and cause the valve to become slower and slower.  I also think that might have contributed to the need for o-ring replacement.  Now I park it with the flaps retracted.

[ryoder]

I don't know how long it took but they were retracted when I got to the hangar today. I tested them and they are working fine but on the fourth pump it gets a bit tight before full handle extension so I stopped pumping like another member said to do. I'll have to keep that in mind and prefer to land with three pumps instead of four anyway. One in downind, one in base, and one when I have the runway made.