When is enough, enough?

[philipneeper]

When will enough be enough? I'm talking in regards to the world of technology. First we have UAV aircraft and then advance axis autopilots , ads-b traffic devices, glass cock pit, etc. Now recently x-plane creator came out with an app that will land your plane for you in case of a medical emergency. I'm not saying it is a bad idea, I'm saying when will the human race stop relying on technology to do everything for them? It is a proven fact that pilots now days struggle with basic piloting when they loose their auto pilots, forefights, gps, etc..... I promise you today's pilots do not have the " stick and rudder" skills as pilots 10 years ago and God knows 20+ yrs ago.

I read and work with people everyday and I see people, mechanics and pilots, lose their troubleshooting skills, all because they do not know their systems and skills.

[ArtVandelay]

So you're saying we're getting dumber and the machines are getting smarter, it will be interesting when they cross

[bonal]

Haven't you seen the end. It's on an episode of Star Trek were all going to be different colored brains under a dome betting Quatlues on the new comers.

[BigTex]

Yeah... When Hal wouldn't let Dave back in...

[Seth]

I just found out there's a prototype instrument that you wear on your finger when watching TV. If you fall asleep, it senses it, and commands your DVR to record what you are watching so when you wake up you can go back and see what you missed.

Really.

I think that's going too far. Smart and cool, but man, going to too far.

-Seth

[cbarry]

Good topic and I agree that it's becoming easier and easier to become too reliant on the gadgets! For example, have any of you ever found yourself zooming in on the airport (on the moving map) so you could see it better only to realize you're already in the pattern? Now that's too reliant!

[scottfromiowa]

Haven't you seen the end. It's on an episode of Star Trek were all going to be different colored brains under a dome betting Quatlues on the new comers. or is it Qwattlews.

I think it was tribbles. That betting it is trouble...

[DAVIDWH]

No problem with technology. Years ago when I was learning to drive a stick shift in mountainous terrain, my father would continuously admonish me by

 

saying, "David you are going to tear the reach out of her". It was years later while accidently viewing covered horse drawn wagon parts that I discovered the pole that connects the front axel to the back axel was called the reach.

 

I guess the modern techy terms of universal joint or drive shaft was still alien to my father.

 

Moving to the present just viewed a 'True Detective" scenario whereby a poor sole was carjacked, robbed and kidnapped at gun point.

 

After his escape and while at the police station, the detective made a few phone calls to "On-Star".

 

Long story short, car was located precisely and all three bad guys are up for a long time.

 

In summary, technology is a bit like a girl friend in high school.

 

Sometimes good, sometimes , well you know.

[larryb]

It will never be enough. People will continue to work to improve their lives. Whether you as an individual agree is another story. Innovation will never stop.

[Piloto]

I would say that there is plenty left to do in the technology area of aviation and space propulsion. We still use heat engines since the times of first locomotives. Transportation (land, sea, air & space) breakthroughs are intimately related to propulsion devices. In the space arena NASA is going back to the old Apollo (Orion) capsule with rockets.

 

José

[NotarPilot]

I look at all the technology on newer automobiles and thought about how it definitely makes drivers dumber.  Now we have cars with back-up cameras, why?  So you do not have to turn your head and look over your shoulder?

 

We have cars that sense when you're drifting out of your lane and automatically correct this error for you.  Probably because you were texting on that "smartphone" of yours.

 

We have blind spot sensing, again, you should be looking over your damn shoulder whenever you change lanes.

 

We have all our controls for the radio moved to the steering wheel now, why? So you can save the cartilage in our elbows by not making it travel 14" to the center console?

 

Now, we are literally a couple of years from a completely nearly autonomous vehicle hitting the market.  I saw that Cadillac intends to roll-out the self driving CTS with "Super Cruise" in 2017.

http://time.com/3303212/gm-self-driving-cadillac/

 

It's bad enough our newer pilots are losing their stick and rudder skills but I'm just as concerned of the average driver and his/her lack of wheel and pedal skills.  

 

How smart can humans be when the machines do all the work for us?

 

*Edited*

[ryoder]

Backup cameras save lives as many parents have backed up right over their small children that they couldn't see even if they turn around.

[Hank]

Backup cameras save lives as many parents have backed up right over their small children that they couldn't see even if they turn around.

 

Two reasons for this:  1) they don't look or pay attention; 2) they drive a 4x4 SUV with poor rear visibility around town, never leaving asphalt, never engaging four-wheel drive, and only needing a sedan, because "it looks cool."

 

Just like my riding mower has a button that must be pressed to back up when the blades are turning, because people were running over their kids. Turn your head and look behind you! It's not that hard. Oh, the "push to back up" button that "prevents me from running over people behind me" is under the steering wheel. Look down, push button, and still back up over people!

 

Government is once again saving us from ourselves. The lane drifting sensors will soon be credited with saving lives, too, and for the same reason--people are too stupid and distracted to actually pay attention to what they are doing. I'm convinced it happens to pilots, too, and we read about those who are unable to recover in time.

 

Pay attention! Fly Safe!  <off of soapbox>

[Danb]

Oh but it's nice having our microwave ovens, remotes for the TV, Kuregig coffees makers ..we've always had bad haphazard drivers, pilots etc. it's not the tech. Fault try the laziness of our ( well my generation has passed) generation..the kids play with electronics cell phones..we had to go out and play until the street lights came on...a lot of the problem is the laziness that's been created maybe now because both mom and dad have to work to buy all the fancy stuff who knows..when I was a kid. Socks, undies and one toy for Xmas I was a very happy camper.. Look around and can that be said today...it all funnels down maybe a mirror should be in our Xmas basket...

Now that's ranting.

[jlunseth]

I just don't agree that autopilots and "all that technology" are a bad thing.  I use the AP in my aircraft quite alot, including for ILS approaches down to minimums.  I feel it is safer.  The pilot is able to cycle through and see all the things going on with the engine and the aircraft's course.  One must always double check the AP to make sure what you are getting is what you asked for.  I have had the AP disconnect in turbulence, I have had the ILS glideslope fail to receive, and several other things.  Part of being a good pilot is being able to deal with such situations.  I would really hate to go back to the VOR nav days, or fly without my SatWX on screen, and I would be happy to have virtual terrain in my next aircraft. 

[chrisk]

The simple answer is enough is never enough.  And if the technology is effective, and the government doesn't prevent it, it will prevail. And we will all curse it if it is mandated and not terribly effective.   Some might argue ADS-B falls into the later category.  But they might change their mind if it included an auto anti mid air collision function.

[carusoam]

This is primarily a value statement...

If the new technology provides value to the customer....

If the pilot can afford the new technology...

More is better...

W&B are limiting factors.

$ are limiting factors.

Safety, speed and efficiency are strong driving forces...

Don't fall for having the latest technology, it will be out moded by something just around the corner...

Best regards,

-a-

[scottfromiowa]

I look at all the technology on newer automobiles and thought about how it definitely makes drivers dumber.  Now we have cars with back-up cameras, why?  So you do not have to turn your head and look over your shoulder?

 

We have cars that sense when you're drifting out of your lane and automatically correct this error for you.  Probably because you were texting on that "smartphone" of yours.

 

We have blind spot sensing, again, you should be looking over your damn shoulder whenever you change lanes.

 

We have all our controls for the radio moved to the steering wheel now, why? So you can save the cartilage in our elbows by not making it travel 14" to the center console?

 

Now, we are literally a couple of years from a completely nearly autonomous vehicle hitting the market.  I saw that Cadillac intends to roll-out the self driving CTS with "Super Cruise" in 2017.

http://time.com/3303212/gm-self-driving-cadillac/

 

It's bad enough our newer pilots are losing their stick and rudder skills but I'm just as concerned of the average driver and his/her lack of wheel and pedal skills.  

 

How smart can humans be when the machines do all the work for us?

 

*Edited*

I drive 25-30k business miles a year. There are a lot of drivers that need these nannies. I agree with you, but welcome the nannies for the nincompoops...

[Hank]

I drive 25-30k business miles a year. There are a lot of drivers that need these nannies. I agree with you, but welcome the nannies for the nincompoops...

If only the nannies could watch just the nincompoops . . . But it's laid down like a blanket over everyone. One size fits some, force everyone into it.

[Hank]

NO!! Keep Little Timmy in his box!!!

[John Pleisse]

I spend more time fu%$king up, blowing though intersections and losing situational awarness while I am screwing around with GPS's and PFD-MFD's. Otherwise, I rarely screw up. Standard King six pack is where I am returning. 

[DonMuncy]

I think all this is in the attitude of the driver/pilot. We have a generation of people (hopefully not me or you) who have developed the attitude that driving is so routine and easy that anyone can do it without effort or paying attention. Thus, it is OK to eat, drink, put on makeup, talk on the phone and text, while driving. And "hands free" devices don't help this. It is where your brain is. If we recognize that driving is potentially dangerous and requires our full attention, we would do better.

The same applies to piloting. Having all the technology to help us is not a bad thing. Using all that technology is not a bad thing. But relying on it to the extent that we don't maintain the skills nor pay attention to what we are doing is a very bad thing. We must either turn off the A/P, look outside, and keep up with where we are on charts, part of the time, OR fly frequently with a conscientious safety pilot or CFI to maintain our skills.

I really doubt that any of us are so complacent that we will program GPS and engage the A/P to fly an approach in IMC, while we drink coffee a carry on a conversation. But I can envision a scenario where the A/P is flying the approach and for whatever reason, it clicks off, and we aren't really well prepared to take over and complete the approach without a hitch. Maybe we ought to have our CFI randomly fail the A/P during the latter stages of an approach.

[BigTex]

I think all this is in the attitude of the driver/pilot. We have a generation of people (hopefully not me or you) who have developed the attitude that driving is so routine and easy that anyone can do it without effort or paying attention. Thus, it is OK to eat, drink, put on makeup, talk on the phone and text, while driving. And "hands free" devices don't help this. It is where your brain is. If we recognize that driving is potentially dangerous and requires our full attention, we would do better.

The same applies to piloting. Having all the technology to help us is not a bad thing. Using all that technology is not a bad thing. But relying on it to the extent that we don't maintain the skills nor pay attention to what we are doing is a very bad thing. We must either turn off the A/P, look outside, and keep up with where we are on charts, part of the time, OR fly frequently with a conscientious safety pilot or CFI to maintain our skills.

I really doubt that any of us are so complacent that we will program GPS and engage the A/P to fly an approach in IMC, while we drink coffee a carry on a conversation. But I can envision a scenario where the A/P is flying the approach and for whatever reason, it clicks off, and we aren't really well prepared to take over and complete the approach without a hitch. Maybe we ought to have our CFI randomly fail the A/P during the latter stages of an approach.

I sense that the airlines are on a verge of having a major crisis on their hands as it relates to the over reliance on automation. Most airline pilots are flipping on the AP as soon as they can and flip it off just before touchdown and only hand flying when they have too. We are already seeing landing accidents were pilots have let their hand flying skills degrade to the point they struggle to land without given a glideslope.

Not sure if they don't like to fly or is it just ego that it might show the pilot next them them that they're not that good of a pilot but something will have to give... And soon.

[Danb]

Don I totally agree..in Sept at the Roanoke PPP..my evil instructor..took away my left screen outside the marker and just inside the marker said oops you just lost electric and eliminated the remaining screen...its this type of practice we need etc...

[Hank]

Gotta love the PPP instructors! My last one required simulated engine out to full stop landing on a 2400 x 40 field. I was used to 3000 x 70, so not too bad. Need to practice that more often.