Just learned my C is junk

[rob47v]

Boy this hurts to look at, what shame. I'm an A&P and I could tell you the A&P who did this work did not look at that area, That corrosion has been there for quite a long while. At work we use something called corban35. Airliners see much more corrosion than general aviation does, and this stuff works wonders for sealing the metal against the elements. A soon as I got my F model which I'm still working on the fuselage was treated with it. The aircraft can be repaired absolutely without removing the wing, but its not a job for the faint at heart!!   

[wombat]

I just talked to David, and while has has a new stub spar, he is unable to find an A&P willing to go to his home field (It's a small strip) to work on it.  He can't really take it anywhere because it's completely unairworthy.  It's in a hangar so not really degrading very much and he has hopes of getting some work done on it over the next year or two. 

 

In the meantime he bought a Stinson and has been flying that (got his tailwheel endorsement to fly it).

[Marauder]

I just talked to David, and while has has a new stub spar, he is unable to find an A&P willing to go to his home field (It's a small strip) to work on it. He can't really take it anywhere because it's completely unairworthy. It's in a hangar so not really degrading very much and he has hopes of getting some work done on it over the next year or two.

In the meantime he bought a Stinson and has been flying that (got his tailwheel endorsement to fly it).

Thanks for updating us on this. It was tough reading about his situation. I'm glad he stayed with aviation. I wonder if the wings can be removed and the plane trailered somewhere. Alan from this site might be able to say how difficult it would be. He has taken quite a few of them apart. If wouldn't require a mechanic since the plane is not going to be flown.

[Seth]

Maybe he should make deal with Alan to part out the aircraft and then use the funds to purchase his next cross country machine or fix up his Stinson.

 

It's been hard following this.

 

-Seth

[Marauder]

Maybe he should make deal with Alan to part out the aircraft and then use the funds to purchase his next cross country machine or fix up his Stinson.

It's been hard following this.

-Seth

Ah, but we all know that Alan is the cheapest bast$&d of them all...

[mpg]

Really???   is their an easy way??

 

 

great condition

GREAT CONDITION • $12,000 • FOR SALE • Mooney wing, 32 gallon tanks, no corrosion, taken off 68 M20F, delivery available • Contact David Mathiesen - AIR-MODS AND REPAIR,INC., Owner - located Jackson, N. USA • Telephone: 609 259 2400 • Fax: 609 259 1200 • Posted March 1, 2015 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad

 

[Bravoman]

Just saw this incredibly sad thread. If that happened to me (i.e. What happened to Dave) I would be so far up the mechanics rectum he would be tasting brill cream. I would litigate him to dust and make sure the FAA put the screws to him. That is inexcusable.

[Shadrach]

This is a sad thread. I don't know th condition of the AC during the PPI but I don't think that seat removal would be needed to see some of the rot in the photos. A thorough inspection of the passenger compartment would have revealed that there was a problem.

[Guest]

Just saw this incredibly sad thread. If that happened to me (i.e. What happened to Dave) I would be so far up the mechanics rectum he would be tasting brill cream. I would litigate him to dust and make sure the FAA put the screws to him. That is inexcusable.

Without knowing the whole story I don't think crawling up the A&P's rectum is in order. As there is no standard to apply to a PPI perhaps the mechanic did the best he could in the budget allowed.

I've lost PPI jobs because of the standards and the costs involved, some buyers end up with good outcomes others don't and wished they'd spent more on the PPI.

Clarence

[HRM]

I think the "pull the wings off" and ship it somewhere (LIKE AN MSC) makes the most sense.

 

Just speculating, but in one scenario the wings are pulled, trucked to the nearest MSC, spar repaired, trucked back, reinstalled, checked, mission accomplished.

 

Of course, get the calculator out to see if it is worth it.

 

One thing I will say, there is a MooneySpace and I am not talking about this forum. It exists in pockets and if you find yourself a great distance out of the space you are in for a rough time. Some A&P's look on a Mooney as the devil's spawn, others stare at them in awe, afraid to approach, trust me, I've seen it.

[carusoam]

The wing listed for sale above is at an MSC in NJ if that helps...

Best regards,

-a-

[DaV8or]

A plan I might consider if he can't get anyone to come to him-

 

Call LASAR in California and consult with them. Take the wing off by yourself. No A&P, or IA required. Then they can send a rig up to get your entire plane and take it to their shop. They do the repair and you fly away. Not cheap. Probably beyond what the plane is worth. However, if you go down and do owner assist with them, they may make a discount if you plead your case to them.

[Tom]

I just talked to David, and while has has a new stub spar, he is unable to find an A&P willing to go to his home field (It's a small strip) to work on it.  He can't really take it anywhere because it's completely unairworthy.  It's in a hangar so not really degrading very much and he has hopes of getting some work done on it over the next year or two. 

 

In the meantime he bought a Stinson and has been flying that (got his tailwheel endorsement to fly it).

 

Just a crazy idea here...at least to get the wing removed from the fuselage either ready to be transported somewhere (e.g. LASAR) or to be ready to install a different wing:

 

-Have David orchestrate a wing removal party. 

-Invite Mooney enthusiasts to fly/drive up.

-See if a Mooney enthusiast would be willing to fly up an A&P from LASAR (I'm sure you'd get an A&P willing to come up to help out)  The A&P technically isn't needed but would certainly be a great asset speeding up the work.

-Have someone shooting video of the process of removing the wing.  A&P dialog describing the key points of the processes would be great.

-Ask for donations with the expectation that the video someday be a community asset uploaded to youtube or similar for Mooney enthusiasts to view.

-I'm not available to fly up, but I'll pledge $200 to David for the cause if he can get a video made (doesn't need to be edited, just informative).

[HRM]

Just a crazy idea here...at least to get the wing removed from the fuselage...

 

That is not that crazy of an idea, sort of like a barn raising in reverse.

 

Could be a fun day and would beat a hundred dollar hamburger trip by a mile and come close to the enjoyment of a Mooney Summit.

 

As has been pointed out, you can disassemble an aircraft as much as you please, let your teenager do it or your auto mechanic.

 

You can also reassemble it, but here is the rub, you cannot fly it until it gets signed off.

[bonal]

I like the idea he is out west and I could make the trip and would throw some money in the pot.

[Bravoman]

Without knowing the whole story I don't think crawling up the A&P's rectum is in order. As there is no standard to apply to a PPI perhaps the mechanic did the best he could in the budget allowed.

I've lost PPI jobs because of the standards and the costs involved, some buyers end up with good outcomes others don't and wished they'd spent more on the PPI.

Clarence

In a sense I agree with you. With any plane I have bought I always do the PPI and convert to an annual if everything looks good preliminarily. That way, as long as the AP/IA is solid you know what your getting and can still get airworthiness issues addressed with the seller. Quite frankly if I were a shop owner I would not do stand alone PPIs as IMO the money to be made is not worth the exposure to both liability and having a disgruntled customer.

[Dave Morris]

I didn't get a PPI at all when I bought my plane, and the first annual cost me an engine and about $10,000 in additional stuff. All those loans are long since paid off, and I love having a plane whose history I know much better now. Live and learn and fly fast.

 

Dave Morris

N1960.com

[C-GHIJ]

I spent 2K (flight, hotel and a in depth PPI) and walked away from the first Mooney I tried to buy.  It stung a bit but it was better that a quick PPI and not finding out that it had serious issues.  Found out the hard way that not ALL pilots are nice and honest.  Someone eventually bought it, don't know who.

[DaV8or]

I spent 2K (flight, hotel and a in depth PPI) and walked away from the first Mooney I tried to buy.  It stung a bit but it was better that a quick PPI and not finding out that it had serious issues.  Found out the hard way that not ALL pilots are nice and honest.  Someone eventually bought it, don't know who.

 

Me too. However, the plane I rejected was not due to owner dishonesty, but rather a defect that I believe no one knew about. Basically, the engine had a tiny crack in the case that the Mooney shop detected and confirmed. I walked away because I wanted a credit to get a name brand rebuild and he wanted to do a field IRAN by his local mechanic. We parted ways on good terms and it cost me a fair amount of money. Welcome to aviation.

 

In the end, the owner fixed the plane with the field repair, never did sell it and ended up damaging it in a runway excursion that ended up in the plane being sent to a salvage yard.

[rob47v]

You don't need an A&P to remove the wings very true. It just has to be documented, or at lest it should. Sorry but I see lots of kitchen log books no disrespect intended. Upon re-installation and rig that's when the A&P signature become vital. After all it is a major repair. Unless you have a very understanding fesdo in your area. No such thing LOL!!!!!   A good serviceable used wing would be much more cost effective. Sheetmetal repair are high cost and extremely tedious, which explains the high cost of course...Which ever route you take if one hasn't been taken already, treat the sucker, seal the lap joint either by a seeping solution or a sealing solution like corban 35 or av30. The latter create a sealing dry to the touch film which protects from elements from protruding into the lap seams. Thats what we use at work to treat all of our aircrafts with, and it works great. You should see what coffee and coke which of course is an acid will do to the floor beams of a B757. It would care the crap out of most!!!  

[Greg]

Where in Az did you find the plane?  

 

[M20F-1968]

On 3/12/2015 at 11:36 PM, Bravoman said:

Just saw this incredibly sad thread. If that happened to me (i.e. What happened to Dave) I would be so far up the mechanics rectum he would be tasting brill cream. I would litigate him to dust and make sure the FAA put the screws to him. That is inexcusable.

I sued 2 A&P's in the Dallas area and won, but collected nothing.  One claimed bankruptcy.  The other has been avoiding the judgement and is crooked as hell.  If you PM me privately I can tell you one who is still working privately that should be avoided at Dallas Executive.  Tx is a debtor's state and it is difficult to collect.

John Breda

[A64Pilot]

Anything can happen in a jury trial, if it goes to a jury, as I have never sued anyone I don’t know if this is the type of thing that would end up with a jury or not. However even with a jury, it’s not likely that rich airplane owner is going to prevail against a poor mechanic, not unless it’s cut and dried.

However what M20Doc said is correct, a “Pre-Buy” is not an FAA defined inspection, therefore it has no performance standards, unless you had some kind of written contract signed by the mechanic you don’t have anything.

That is why I say if your having a good, comprehensive pre-buy done, turn it into an Annual if your buying, an Annual is defined and has standards that must be met, you have a case then, and truly any good IA will take an Annual more seriously even if it’s not a conscious thing, they are signing on the dotted line, and big brother is watching.

Then lastly I’ll leave you with this thought. I think if I remember right that the purchase price for this airplane was 20 AMU? If so then for an engine with only 400 hours and a good prop too, isn’t that just one heck of a deal? You know, too good to be true? Besides who is going to spend big money on a comprehensive inspection on a 20K airplane?

If I’m wrong about the price I apologize, I do get things confused sometimes

[Prior owner]

Hmm…I’m thinking the statute of limitations has probably run out on this one…2014?
 

 

[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, PilotCoyote said:

Hmm…I’m thinking the statute of limitations has probably run out on this one…2014?

Wow! Talk about necro-threads!