Malaysian Flight Hijacked?

[Piloto]

You were right! This photo just in-

 

Love it!!! Can I borrow it for my gas mask truck sales in NYC? I will give you a sales commision.

 

I just wonder for what reason would you fly a plane to Antartica? Even if the whole instrument panel was gone you still have the whisky compass to fly toward land. Oh I know the pilot had out of date charts. How come he didn't activated the ELT after so many hours in-flight. 

 

Do you know how many cargo barges loose they cargo on high seas conditions that may look like plane debris? 

 

How come there is no mention of findings on land? After all the B777ER is not an amphibian plane.

 

SEARCH ON LAND!!!!

 

José

[rob]

Do you know how many cargo barges loose they cargo on high seas conditions that may look like plane

José

No, I have no idea. How many? And please cite a reputable source in your answer. Thanks

[Piloto]

To give you an idea how remote are the chances of finding the black boxes. I took decades to find the Titanic at 10,000ft knowing the exact location where it sank. And the Titanic is a little bit bigger than the boxes that would be at 20,000ft. And that is assuming that the plane actually ditched. At least with the Titanic we knew it sank from survivors testimony and from radio messages stating it's location. In this case we don't even have an ELT broadcast to go by. 

 

I can't imagine what the passenger's relatives are going through. But with no wreckage found they may think that there is hope that they may still be alive somewhere. Maybe on a raft, or an island or captured for ransom. It is really tough for them. Hope this mystery gets resolved.  But after three weeks with no sign of wrekage the chances of finding anything on the water get slimmer.      

 

 

José 

[Piloto]

To give you an idea how remote are the chances of finding the black boxes. I took decades to find the Titanic at 10,000ft knowing the exact location where it sank. And the Titanic is a little bit bigger than the boxes that would be at 20,000ft. And that is assuming that the plane actually ditched. At least with the Titanic we knew it sank from survivors testimony and from radio messages stating it's location. In this case we don't even have an ELT broadcast to go by. 

 

I can't imagine what the passenger's relatives are going through. But with no wrekage found they may think that there is hope that they may still be alive somewhere. Maybe on a raft, or an island or captured for ransom. It is really tough for them. Hope this mystery gets resolved.  But after three weeks with no sign of wrekage the chances of finding anything on the water get slimmer.      

 

 

José 

[yvesg]

Ok José... now we know this: after the aircraft turned, it descended to 12000 feet. I looked at the ground tracks available on Internet and it appears, after it turned, it was heading towards what happens to be the closest airport from the aircraft position. This airport is near the city of Kota Bharu where the Boeing could land. In case of an emergency where the aircraft would still fly, this is what I would do. I am convinced now that this was an inflight emergency.

The only thing that would allow the aircraft to fly for a while would be crew incapacitation but even if this is the case, at 12000 I dont think it would end up south-west of Australia. I could be wrong but I think the aircraft crashed much closer (or ditched, this would explain why they would still receive the ACARS pings as the aircraft (or parts of it) floated.

Some witnesses (fisherman) saw low flying aircraft that night... unless they are clowns, I would definitely send some boats that can re ceive the pings where they believe the aircraft went.

Yves

[Piloto]

Ok José... now we know this: after the aircraft turned, it descended to 12000 feet. I looked at the ground tracks available on Internet and it appears, after it turned, it was heading towards what happens to be the closest airport from the aircraft position. This airport is near the city of Kota Bharu where the Boeing could land. In case of an emergency where the aircraft would still fly, this is what I would do. I am convinced now that this was an inflight emergency.

The only thing that would allow the aircraft to fly for a while would be crew incapacitation but even if this is the case, at 12000 I dont think it would end up south-west of Australia. I could be wrong but I think the aircraft crashed much closer (or ditched, this would explain why they would still receive the ACARS pings as the aircraft (or parts of it) floated.

Some witnesses (fisherman) saw low flying aircraft that night... unless they are clowns, I would definitely send some boats that can re ceive the pings where they believe the aircraft went.

Yves

But why they turned the transponder off? The only thing I can think for pilot incapacitation is that they took Ambien instead of energy pills. The maintenace data satellite transmitter pinged the satellite four hours after transponder was turned off.

 

This looks more to me like a 911 in progress. That is why there is no claims, ransom calls or wreckage debris. Mission is not over yet. Aren't you curious about that there is no news about search on land? But this silly search next to Antartica. I wonder if the public is being deceived about where that actual search is taking place to keep the hijackers from changing plans. After all they can only know where the search is going on watching CNN in Somalia. If they know the search is moving to Somalia they will change plans and move the B777 somewhere else. This was the same tactic when looking for Bin Laden. He though they were looking for him in Afganistan by watching CNN. So he never moved 

 

José 

 

 

[Piloto]

Do we KNOW the transponder was turned off by a human hand? Could loss of transponder be the result of an electrical issue? What bus powers the transponder. How is that bus powered? Can that bus be isolated? Hmmmm ....?

You will notice on your transponder that before going into the OFF position it has to go thru the NO ALT position. The ATC radar data indicates this. The transponders are on 115V/400Hz separate buses. The VHF COMs are on 28V separate buses. But even if everything was powered down you could still activate the ELT which has its own battery. On the B777 the ELT can also be activated automatically by the Master Caution System. This would indicate that there was no major event to activate the ELT

 

José 

[201er]

But isn't the flick of the selector switch on transponder potentially quick enough to happen between interrogations and effectively be meaningless?

[Piloto]

You are right. But not if it happens within the same beam scan or a slow switch rotation.

Jose

[DaV8or]

Ok José... now we know this: after the aircraft turned, it descended to 12000 feet. I looked at the ground tracks available on Internet and it appears, after it turned, it was heading towards what happens to be the closest airport from the aircraft position. This airport is near the city of Kota Bharu where the Boeing could land. In case of an emergency where the aircraft would still fly, this is what I would do. I am convinced now that this was an inflight emergency.

Yves

 

I still have to ask the proponents of the emergency turn back theory, If the crew and everyone on board were incapacitated and the autopilot was flying the plane, why didn't the plane arrive at this emergency airport? This Kota Bhahu airport is likely radar controlled and if the airplane was cruising along at 12,000 ft, don't you think it would have been noticed as it passed right overhead the airport?

[Seth]

Jose-

 

What would be the reason at this point that they would say it "crashed" in the Indian Ocean?  Why wait so long? 

 

Now you've got me thinking this way?  Were they waiting until they had found it, destroyed it by bomb/missile/shot it down elsewhere, and then said that it is located in the Indian Ocean where the chance of recovery is less than 1 out of 10?

 

-Seth

[yvesg]

I still have to ask the proponents of the emergency turn back theory, If the crew and everyone on board were incapacitated and the autopilot was flying the plane, why didn't the plane arrive at this emergency airport? This Kota Bhahu airport is likely radar controlled and if the airplane was cruising along at 12,000 ft, don't you think it would have been noticed as it passed right overhead the airport?

Dave, I don't know the level of sophistication the 777 autopilot has but I would assume that it could fly a heading? Perhaps when the emergency came about the pilot told the first officer: We have a fire on board, turn around towards Kota Bharu and descend to 12000 feet while I attempt to put out the fire...the pilot got incapacitated by smoke, the first officer quickly set the aircraft autopilot in heading mode and left his seat to go help the pilot and / or passed out after these events.

For the emergency field: With the transponder U/S there is a good chance they would not see him coming. It is possible they did not fly over it but a few miles off since the heading mode would not provide accurate navigation.

A few fisherman in that area did report seeing the aircraft.

Yves

[Guest]

I've ordered in a batch of fresh Crow. Now I'm looking for a good Somali recipe.

Clarence

[Piloto]

Jose-

 

What would be the reason at this point that they would say it "crashed" in the Indian Ocean?  Why wait so long? 

 

Now you've got me thinking this way?  Were they waiting until they had found it, destroyed it by bomb/missile/shot it down elsewhere, and then said that it is located in the Indian Ocean where the chance of recovery is less than 1 out of 10?

 

-Seth

Simple. The Malaysian government wants closure for the relatives. But many of the relatives interviewed on TV believe their relatives still alive. Until they see actual wreckage there is chance they still alive they say.. And they may not be wrong. After all in this mystery what else you can go by other than ESP perception by 200+ relatives.

 

More on the ESP:  . .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrasensory_perception  

 

I myself would feel the same way if I had a relative onboard. If you hint the relatives that they were captured by the somalis they will move their potest for a China invasion of Somalia to capture their relatives.

 

This whole search effort close to Antartica is just a fake to keep the hijackers from changing plans. Just like they did in the search of Obama Bin Laden. Hope is the case and they still alive.

 

José   

[flyboy0681]

I'll just briefly jump into the fray here. My hangar neighbor come by today to work on his plane. He flies 787’s for United but flew the 777 for a decade. I asked him his take on flight 370 and he said that over the years United had experienced four separate incidents of shorts from under the center pedestal, one where sparks actually shot out. His hypothesis is that the pedestal experienced a short which grew and the crew immediately commanded the autopilot to head back towards land. He went on to say that by the time they went to declare an emergency the radios were fried, including the transponder and ACARS, in which the head units are all housed in the same area, and the fire - if there was one – put itself out. He surmised that the crew was eventually overcome by toxic fumes from the electronics. He also said it’s possible that the people in the back rode it out for the entire 7 hours but couldn't break into the flight deck. If true then I guess there is a downside to all of that armor.

[Piloto]

I'll just briefly jump into the fray here. My hangar neighbor come by today to work on his plane. He flies 787’s for United but flew the 777 for a decade. I asked him his take on flight 370 and he said that over the years United had experienced four separate incidents of shorts from under the center pedestal, one where sparks actually shot out. His hypothesis is that the pedestal experienced a short which grew and the crew immediately commanded the autopilot to head back towards land. He went on to say that by the time they went to declare an emergency the radios were fried, including the transponder and ACARS, in which the head units are all housed in the same area, and the fire - if there was one – put itself out. He surmised that the crew was eventually overcome by toxic fumes from the electronics. He also said it’s possible that the people in the back rode it out for the entire 7 hours but couldn't break into the flight deck. If true then I guess there is a downside to all of that armor.

Interesting theory. But I find it unlikely to have a fire in that area to spread so widely. To keep a growing fire you need some sort of fuel like cloth, plastic or non approved wire insulation. The avionics boxes in the console are in separate aluminum enclosures. So fire in any of them will be kept contained. A short circuit in the wire harness will activate a CB that will stop current flow. But even if the CB fails to open the FAA approved wire insulation will not burn or create toxic gases. If you take a regular power cord and expose it to a heat gun the insulation will melt. If you expose FAA approved wire insulation to the same heat it may only stain to yellow. This why is so important to use approved wires. 

 

Your friend probably saw a spark or smoke coming out from one of the boxes in the console but I doubt it would spread to the whole console. Even if the event happened the pilots could have activated the ELT to convey their predicament. There was never an ELT signal from MH 370.

 

José 

[N33GG]

I'm sticking with my U-Tube Video theory!

[yvesg]

I'll just briefly jump into the fray here. My hangar neighbor come by today to work on his plane. He flies 787’s for United but flew the 777 for a decade. I asked him his take on flight 370 and he said that over the years United had experienced four separate incidents of shorts from under the center pedestal, one where sparks actually shot out. His hypothesis is that the pedestal experienced a short which grew and the crew immediately commanded the autopilot to head back towards land. He went on to say that by the time they went to declare an emergency the radios were fried, including the transponder and ACARS, in which the head units are all housed in the same area, and the fire - if there was one – put itself out. He surmised that the crew was eventually overcome by toxic fumes from the electronics. He also said it’s possible that the people in the back rode it out for the entire 7 hours but couldn't break into the flight deck. If true then I guess there is a downside to all of that armor.

If this is what happened, it must have been terrible for the passengers... knowing that they were going to die very soon. You are right about the armor down side.

Yves

[Guest]

Swiss Air 111 went down from a fire caused by a bad wire in the cabin entertainment system, so fire is a very real possibility.

Clarence

[Piloto]

Lack of ELT signal???

 

I have noticed that none of the newscast mention anyting about ELTs. Just the absence of an ELT signal from MH 370 lend to believe that is likely that it never crashed but that safely landed somewhere. This would add support to the hijack theory.

 

Unlike the old 121.5 MHz that need to be transmitting for hours without an ID or position the new 406 MHz ELTs provides instant ID and position on a single burst that repeats every 50 seconds. Much more effective and less prone to false rescues.

 

José 

[Mooneymite]

Lack of ELT signal???

 

I have noticed that none of the newscast mention anyting about ELTs. Just the absence of an ELT signal from MH 370 lend to believe that is likely that it never crashed but that safely landed somewhere. This would add support to the hijack theory.

 

Unlike the old 121.5 MHz that need to be transmitting for hours without an ID or position the new 406 MHz ELTs provides instant ID and position on a single burst that repeats every 50 seconds. Much more effective and less prone to false rescues.

 

José 

 

 

B-777's have ELT's that work in the water?

[Piloto]

B-777's have ELT's that work in the water?

Not when submerged but inflight. They could manually be activated like the one on your Mooney or automatically by the Master Caution System like the Artex B406-4

 

Check http://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/elts-commercialmilitary/b406-4/

 

José

[Mooneymite]

Just the absence of an ELT signal from MH 370 lend to believe that is likely that it never crashed but that safely landed somewhere.

 

 

Not when submerged but inflight. They could manually be activated like the one on your Mooney or automatically by the Master Caution System like the Artex B406-4

 

 

So, if it crashed in the water, you agree there might be no ELT signal?

[Piloto]

So, if it crashed in the water, you agree there might be no ELT signal?

It may have not crashed at all. This is going to be Boeing's argument in court. "No ELT signal no crash, show me the wreck". How can a suing lawyer blame on Boeing if there is no even evidence of a crash. I do not think Boeing is going to pay any money when there is no proof that they were at fault.

 

José 

[flyboy0681]

 I do not think Boeing is going to pay any money when there is no proof that they were at fault.

 

 

 

You should know that in the American courtroom facts take second seat to the persuasive skills of the attorney. Time and time again we have seen (and became incensed) companies found to be liable when there wasn't one shred of evidence. In the end it was the persuasiveness of the legal team which won over the jury. Add to the mix junk science.