Malaysian Flight Hijacked?

[Piloto]

Is it possible that Malaysian B777 never crashed? Are they searching in the wrong area? After two days of search in the vicinity of the last transponder transmission there is no signs of debris on land or water. This puzzle me since a plane like this will leave a noticeable debris foot print on land or water. Specially when you go by the last transponder transmission exact location to do the search.

 

This plane could be easily be 3,000nm or more away hiding in a hangar. The fact that no terrorist group has made any claims. Or suicidal note by any of the occupants kind of rule out a bomb in the plane.

 

Here is my hopeful scenario theory:

 

Someone familiar with the B777 disguising as a crew member (or the crew itself) got access to the cockpit and just turn off the transponder and some how treatens the pilots or flew the plane himself to deviate to a different location. If the plane does a quick descent over water to 5,000ft msl or lower it will not be detected by traditional land based X band radar (skin reflexion). Not all ATC radar sites are X Band equipped. Keep in mind also that this plane was fueled for a 6 hrs flight.

 

The plane then is flown 3,000nm away to a remote location for hiding in a hangar or disguising building. The passengers are unloaded and moved to a different location while a massive search is going in the wrong place.

 

So why would you go such to such extreme? Simple my friend "Money".

You can ask $4million/passenger that equals $1billion. The airline, Boeing and governments can easily share the amount. After all a brand new B777 sells for $250million. 

 

If you do not want to get involved with hostages you could also canibalize the plane and sell the parts. 

 

So where would the hijacker fly a plane like this? Anywhere in the world where they have friends willing to share the reward and hiding them. If the hijackers are smart is likey they will never be found. Would not be surprised if this was a plot by the crew. They could fake been killed in front of the passengers on the ground so the CIA will never search for them.    

 

If they do not find any debris this is a possibility of what may have happened.

 

For the good of the passengers, relatives and friends hope the above is the case.

 

José 

 

 

.   

[kerry]

Not likely.  This plane went down.  With todays technology passengers would have called out on a cell phone.

[Piloto]

Not likely.  This plane went down.  With todays technology passengers would have called out on a cell phone.

This was a night flight and it is likely that they were not aware of what was going on and the crew may have asked to not use their phones in flight

 

José  

[fluffysheap]

It seems unlikely to be a hijacking.  Even if the plane managed to somehow evade radar, there aren't a lot of places where you could land and hide a plane that big.  Maybe they could go to North Korea, but even there, without being spotted by South Korea or Japan, seems hard.  Airliner fuel economy isn't good at low altitude (and there's no other way they could avoid being spotted).

 

I don't see cell phones as being a factor one way or another.  The plane was over water.

 

I don't see why Boeing would help pay for a ransom.  If there was a mechanical failure perhaps, but not terrorism, whether a bomb or hijacking.  Hostages are expensive, and you need to keep them alive so that there's a reason to pay a ransom.  We would have heard something by now.

 

The Vietnamese say they have seen an oil slick, but I'm not sure if that's corroborated yet.

 

Sadly it looks like all the signs point to either an accident or a bombing or perhaps a shootdown.  Because of the fake passports I'm expecting bombing, but it's too early to know for sure.

[gjkirsch]

I was surprised to read that there are about 39 million passports reported as lost or stolen and it is not unusual that there are probably a number of people traveling on false identities on most international flights.  May or may not be related to the missing plane.  

[Guest]

A just as likely scenario is it was hijacked by a crazed Mooney pilot suffering from sleep apnea compounded by a very high BMI, who is about to have his ticket pulled by the FAA.

Clarence

[Oscar Avalle]

Is it possible that Malaysian B777 never crashed? Are they searching in the wrong area? After two days of search in the vicinity of the last transponder transmission there is no signs of debris on land or water. This puzzle me since a plane like this will leave a noticeable debris foot print on land or water. Specially when you go by the last transponder transmission exact location to do the search.

 

This plane could be easily be 3,000nm or more away hiding in a hangar. The fact that no terrorist group has made any claims. Or suicidal note by any of the occupants kind of rule out a bomb in the plane.

 

Here is my hopeful scenario theory:

 

Someone familiar with the B777 disguising as a crew member (or the crew itself) got access to the cockpit and just turn off the transponder and some how treatens the pilots or flew the plane himself to deviate to a different location. If the plane does a quick descent over water to 5,000ft msl or lower it will not be detected by traditional land based X band radar (skin reflexion). Not all ATC radar sites are X Band equipped. Keep in mind also that this plane was fueled for a 6 hrs flight.

 

The plane then is flown 3,000nm away to a remote location for hiding in a hangar or disguising building. The passengers are unloaded and moved to a different location while a massive search is going in the wrong place.

 

So why would you go such to such extreme? Simple my friend "Money".

You can ask $4million/passenger that equals $1billion. The airline, Boeing and governments can easily share the amount. After all a brand new B777 sells for $250million. 

 

If you do not want to get involved with hostages you could also canibalize the plane and sell the parts. 

 

So where would the hijacker fly a plane like this? Anywhere in the world where they have friends willing to share the reward and hiding them. If the hijackers are smart is likey they will never be found. Would not be surprised if this was a plot by the crew. They could fake been killed in front of the passengers on the ground so the CIA will never search for them.    

 

If they do not find any debris this is a possibility of what may have happened.

 

For the good of the passengers, relatives and friends hope the above is the case.

 

José 

 

 

.   

interesting, but very unlikely. Unfortunately, because it would mean that they are still alive. 

[Ned Gravel]

A just as likely scenario is it was hijacked by a crazed Mooney pilot suffering from sleep apnea compounded by a very high BMI, who is about to have his ticket pulled by the FAA.

Clarence

 

 

OK Clarence:

 

Somehow you have run out of things to do.  I will send you my squawk list next week.  Yves is flying C-FSWR in from Ottawa.  And there is that beautiful doghouse to change out for a 201 style baffle kit.

 

Will you have any use for the doghouse with its shiny black powder-coated finish?  If not, someone here may need one.  

[orionflt]

I wouldn't mind having spare doghouse parts if some one doesn't have an immediate need.

[Ned Gravel]

OK.  Let's see what develops at the shop first.  The artist gets first dibs.

[Mooney65E]

Pardon me for "HIJACKING" this thread, but please post pics of the 201 style baffle. I hate my doghouse and the 201 screws that hold it together!

[takair]

Pardon me for "HIJACKING" this thread, but please post pics of the 201 style baffle. I hate my doghouse and the 201 screws that hold it together!

X2!

[Mooneymite]

Not likely.  This plane went down.  With todays technology passengers would have called out on a cell phone.

Cell phones work in flight over the ocean?

That's news to me.

How?

[Hank]

Ned/Clarence--can you forward info about the doghouse-to-baffle conversion? I've not been successful tracking that down, and my A&P also had no luck. It's difficult getting a sheet metal man out to look at the plane, and mine is showing its age.

 

Mite--even if cell phones won't work over the ocean, they likely would over land at low altitude. Assuming there are towers near the Gulf and whatever part of land they went over. Like others, though, I don't hold out much hope for this.

[kerry]

Cell phones work in flight over the ocean?

That's news to me.

How

Today's technology(cell phones is just one possibility. Which would possible work if they landed at some hidden runway).  I have a Gen3 GPS satellite locator that cost me $150.  I push the button and they'll come find me.  I would think a 777 would have some sophisticated system more complex than my $150 Gen3 if it was highjacked.

[Piloto]

Today's technology(cell phones is just one possibility. Which would possible work if they landed at some hidden runway).  I have a Gen3 GPS satellite locator that cost me $150.  I push the button and they'll come find me.  I would think a 777 would have some sophisticated system more complex than my $150 Gen3 if it was highjacked.

You do not need a GPS on your cell phone to find you. How do you think the cell network knows the cell you are in when they call you without even you making a call ever. Simple, any time your cell phone is on it will log-in to the closest cell tower next to you. This way you can receive calls anywhere without making one. ATT Family Map service has a location service for finding cell phones on your account. That is how the CIA can find the location of cell phones.

 

On the same subject. I am puzzle again by the lack of common sense at the FAA. If they know that is very hard to find a black box underwater why they don't come up with a simple rule: "ALL BLACK BOXES MUST FLOAT UPON IMPACT". Nothing new here, the ELT's on boats float out of the holding bracket when in contact with water. Looks that nobody in the FAA has a boat.

 

No need to even come up with a new black box design. Just locate them inside the cone behind the tail section. Upon impact the cone is released by an internal spring. Besides the black boxes a 406Mhz ELT and of course stuffed with flotation material in the cone. This will make the black boxes and ELT more survivable to fire and water. It will definitely makes the search much easier. It does not take a Phd in engineering to design a floating cone for new and retrofit planes.

 

On Mooneys the ELT is located on the avionics rack just behind the baggage compartment. What good is that if the plane sink or caught on fire. This is why I have a portable floating PLB in the cabin attached to the raft when I carry it.

 

But when have you seen a government with common sense that let the national debt goes beyond what they can pay. Wish I could do the same with my credit cards. Oh! but I can't because I have common sense, oh well my fault. Common sense is a  disease in the government were congress get vaccinated against it every four years. Wish I could get vaccinated but I can't afford it, so I have to pay my debts including taxes.  

 

José 

[Ned Gravel]

Ned/Clarence--can you forward info about the doghouse-to-baffle conversion? I've not been successful tracking that down, and my A&P also had no luck. It's difficult getting a sheet metal man out to look at the plane, and mine is showing its age.

Mite--even if cell phones won't work over the ocean, they likely would over land at low altitude. Assuming there are towers near the Gulf and whatever part of land they went over. Like others, though, I don't hold out much hope for this.

Hank:

Clarence will know. He is the magician that rebuilt it.

Sent from my iPad

[Guest]

Not sure how it effective it would be with tail cones, ELT's and Black boxes falling off airplanes with some of the landing airline pilots make. There would be a lot of runway closures as the parts a swept off runways world wide.

Clarence

[Piloto]

Not sure how it effective it would be with tail cones, ELT's and Black boxes falling off airplanes with some of the landing airline pilots make. There would be a lot of runway closures as the parts a swept off runways world wide.

Clarence

There is a big difference in forces between a hard landing and a crash impact. A hard landing will not deform the fuselage but a crash for sure. Even if the tail cone falls off during a hard landing is not as bad as blowing the tires and burning them up.

 

José

[takair]

There is a big difference in forces between a hard landing and a crash impact. A hard landing will not deform the fuselage but a crash for sure. Even if the tail cone falls off during a hard landing is not as bad as blowing the tires and burning them up.

 

José

Jose

You are not far off. Many helicopters that operate over water have water activated deployable beacons. Touch down in water and this thing springs from the aircraft, floats, and sends out a signal. No reason it could not be adapted to airplanes, except for cost..... In general, the industry has not even accepted the 406 ELT, so it would be a hard sell to install these. That said, one of these searches could pay for an entire fleet retrofit.

[MB65E]

I spent some time yesterday looking pictures of Ual flight 93's crater in the ground. Not speculating anything, but if the jet went down in the Jungle, they will never find it with out some serious Radar/tracking equipment. Flight 93 was tracked for hours on radar, if 93 went down in a tree line, it would have been hard to see. I can't imagine trying to find a buried 777 in the worlds thickest jungle. There was almost no debris left on the surface of 93's crater.

Really sad, whatever the cause was.

-Matt

[Seth]

Jose-

 

What do you know that we don't?  Quoted today:

 

"A senior military officer told Reuters that the plane "changed course after Kota Bharu and took a lower altitude. It made it into the Malacca Strait."

 

"If the plane did head west, that would appear to rule out sudden catastrophic mechanical failure, as it would mean the aircraft flew around 350 miles at least after its last contact with air traffic control, although its transponder and other tracking systems were off."

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/military-cant-say-definitively-whether-missing-jet-flew-west-n49761

 

 

-Seth

[Piloto]

Jose-

 

What do you know that we don't?  Quoted today:

 

"A senior military officer told Reuters that the plane "changed course after Kota Bharu and took a lower altitude. It made it into the Malacca Strait."

 

"If the plane did head west, that would appear to rule out sudden catastrophic mechanical failure, as it would mean the aircraft flew around 350 miles at least after its last contact with air traffic control, although its transponder and other tracking systems were off."

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/military-cant-say-definitively-whether-missing-jet-flew-west-n49761

 

 

-Seth

I didn't want to say it but based on the latest facts this smell to me now like a prelude for a not for profit terrorits attack on the US. The fact that there is no ransom or terrorist claim by now indicates that the mission is not over yet. Unlike Air France 447 crash were debris was found next day after crashing in one piece over the North Atlantic this tells me this plane is on land. 

 

Pure hypotetical

The B777 is on the ground at 3000+nm from the search area. getting retrofitted with long range tanks and biological weapons dispensers. It would fly over the Atlantic toward the US east coast  on the same corridors as the airlines to blend in with other traffic using the onboard TCAS. This will make impossible for military radars to differentiate it from airline traffic. Similar scenario as 911 were grounding all air traffic didn't help. It is imperative that the search be focused on the ground rather than on water. A plane in the water is no threat to anyone. Once the B777 is airborne enroute to the USA is impossible to stop it until it crashes in the US. My feeling is that is headed toward NY where there is a lot of air traffic to blend in, same as 911, ending up on the new tower.

 

I just hope I am very wrong on this and you can call me "El piloto loco". But hope the CIA guys have some comon sense left on them.

 

There are ways to find the plane on the ground but I don't want to hint them because it may jeopardize the search.

 

José     

[PTK]

Jose' you make a very valid point. A plane in the water is no threat.

A couple questions though about your hypothesis.

1. What do you do with the passengers and crew, and
2. Where do you take a B777 and hide it. They'd have to land it somewhere big and hangar it to retrofit it.
They'd have to have prepared a landing strip somewhere before hand.
You're right we should be looking on land.

Your hypothesis freaks me out though!

 

Possible, yes. Probable, I just don't know.

[Jeff_S]

I don't normally add to conspiracy theories but I have also thought that the details around this are pretty bizarre. To me the telling point is that the transponders just went off. As far as I know only two things would cause this: catastrophic destruction, or a human decision. Since no wreckage has been sighted where they went off, I have to believe Door #2.  Now, what that says about the intentions and follow-on activities I won't speculate.

 

Or as my Mom has said, maybe the UFOs got 'em.