Newbie, new engine, need help!!

[LAE]

1st off thanks to everyone on the board for the wealth of information posted on MS. Usually what I don't find informative I at least find entertaining so mooneyspace is a win win to me. I've been lurking for some time and need some pointers that I'm confident someone here could help with.

I'll try to explain thoroughly and be brief at the same time. I have a '82/'83 "J" N11724. (Paperwork all states 83 FAA reg. says '82) bought the plane Sept '12 after selling our Cherokee. In May '13 the prop was slinging some grease (previous maintenance for same issue a couple yrs earlier) and calendar was well past tbo so we opted to send prop and gov for o/h. Once returned had it all reinstalled. Next day decided to test fly before making a cross country trip planned for the following day. Opted for a short hop to another airport where we had just rented a t hanger and where planning to move the following week. (Lesson learned don't leave airport on test flight!) Once we leveled off and set cruise power noticed oil pressure was lower than normal but still in the green. After quick checks and no obvious cause opted to return to airport just in case. Didn't make intended (departure) airport and lost the engine 12 miles out and 1500 ft (clouds had use pushed down and we were vfr) Fourtunantly we made another nearby airport and made an engine out landing safely without any further damage to the airplane or ourselves. Lost ALL oil between gov and adapter plate.

And so our saga begins...

Removed engine and sent to Colorado. Engine was pretty much toast, after weighing options and cost we opted for 0 time new log book o/h on "our" engine a3b6d but opted for the conversion to a3b6 since with the work having to be done already it would only be an additional $1200(again this conversion was done on our engine not an exchange). Got govenor arm and cable mounting relocation kit. Only learned about the timing difference after the fact but will address that later I just have to get airborne at this point.

And here we are...

Engine's installed + a wealth of other new parts ( tach and most everything in front of the firewall), govenor and prop overhauled a second time due to metal contamination, and annual is done and I'm ready to fly. Debated and decided a quick ground check and prop cycle should be done due to experiences that lead us to this point. Low and behold everything came together and my mistress once again had life in her. After shut down, I found an oil leak from gov mounting location. Decided to try and pull gov and check it out and ran into the road block. With the non "d" accessory case the gov is to close to the firewall to remove so I have this problem to deal with but what I'm really wondering now is did I miss that a different governor and possibly prop are required with the conversion?

I apologize for the long 1st post and hope this is coherent as I'm tired and frustrated right now. I appreciate any help available and hope I can contribute back a portion of what I've taken from here.

P.S. When I refer to "I" in several places I mean my mechanic but I've been there so much lately I feel like its I. Also, let's not get into what a&p ia, who's fault initial problem was, why it's taken 8 months to get to this point, why the mechanic didn't notice clearances before etc. We can discuss all that later, right now I just want back in the air.

Thanks in advance,

Andy

[Nemesis]

Andy,

 

I have a K model so I do not have any direct knowledge of your J model. I am posting here to try and get the ball rolling for you.

From the TCDS:

 

Textron-Lycoming IO-360-A1B6D or IO-360-A3B6D or IO-360-A3B6.

Propeller, McCauley, B2D34C212 hub, 78CDA-4 blades

Propeller, McCauley, B2D34C214 hub, 90DHB-16E blades or -16EP blades

Propeller, Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF hub, F7666A-3Q blades

Propeller governor, McCauley, C290D5F/T17

 

I only see the 3 engine sub-models, the 2 McCauley props, 1 Hartzell prop, and only a single prop governor.

So, from the standpoint of the Type Certificate, I can see only 1 choice for prop governor on any variant of the engine.

There are many others on this forum that might better know what is possible given an upgrade here and modification there with regards to a J model.

When you get all of this sorted out and you are back to having a SAFE and reliable machine, don't forget to go back and evaluate 8 months, fault, clearances, etc., and proceed accordingly with regards to future mechanics.

I'm just sayin'...

 

Dave

[jetdriven]

The engine's type certificate lists a different governor. The drive ratio is different on the A3B6.

Either your mechanic isn't very good at installing governors, or yours has a warped base. There are two gaskets and a plate that all go under the prop governor.

[LAE]

Thanks for the replies. Did a little more brief research earlier and did find different gov. part numbers for the "d" versus non "d" in the mooney parts manual. C290D5/T17 for the D and DC290D1/T22 for the later models coming from the factory with the non "d" engine. Haven't seen anything definitive yet in regards to doing the conversion though.

@jetdriven we've had a different mechanic do the install than did the original work so the possibility of warped base is there but it wasn't leaking when it went out to overhaul initially and I would think (always seems to get me in trouble) that it would have been caught one of the 2 overhauls when put on the test bench? I guess I'll check that myself once I figure out if I can get the stupid thing off without removing the engine at this point.

 

On a side note. The governor was sent to authorized repair station for inspection in search of cause of original failure. Once we receive it back we sent it out to be overhauled again, before we opted for the conversion, which may prove to have been unnecessary if a new governor is required. The governor when returned was painted a different color and the data plate had been replaced (same model # and ser#) but obviously replaced. Is this standard procedure or does this seem odd. I'm trying not to grasp at straws it just seems odd this wasn't the case with the first o/h. Either way I'm ready to get this behind me and get back in the air. Seems we are so close and just took two steps back.

 

Thanks again for help!

Andy

[jetdriven]

If yo do change governor model numbers, ship it for exchange to Quality aircraft accessories for a swap. Dont get suckered into the game of "converting" your governor to the other model. The last two guys I know did this got slammed with a list of parts like flyweights, and a pilot valve which cost nearly two grand.

[Rustler]

Andy--

 

When I converted the IO360B6D on my '80 J to an IO360B6, I had to change the original prop governor to a different model. I have pictures of that if you'd like them. I think you have to install it before installing the engine, but I can't remember.

[LAE]

Rustler

Thx. Pictures would be great if that's not too much trouble. I pretty much left it alone today as my frustration level had about got the better of me and I didn't want to blow my top. I was hoping you'd have some ideas, I've read your older post and saw you've been through this also but couldn't find much pertaining to the gov. I also think I remember yours was a "d" data plate stamped with a "c" for the conversion? Mine was done at western also but on our engine. I've found that to be less of the norm as far as converting to the non "d" as most just do an exchange. Also I think you had an issue with the timing change too? If that's correct I may be in touch later for some help to address that if you don't mind. My data plate still says 25* timing but the split mags are 20*. I'll cross that bridge later as for now I just want to fly off my not home field. I've also seen a lot of people claim once they were broke in they regained most of their speed loss from the timing change so it may not be that big of a deal. We have the lopresti cowl mod(they still use pics of our plane in their marketing) and a few other speed mods so I'm not sure I'll pay as stiff of a penalty initially that some others did. I know she was an excellent plane with a strong engine and very fast for a J and I just want her to be whole again.

Thx

Andy

[Nemesis]

Andy,

 

I saw that you posted some pictures today of filter media, etc. I am guessing (hoping) that those were from the day that you lost your oil and engine and not from some more recent incident?

 

Dave

[LAE]

Dave

Those are pics I had on the iPad. I figured if I was going to start asking for help I could at least complete my profile and while I was at it I stuck those in an album. Some date from having had the plane a couple weeks to what I think was my last trip from Waco before we sent the prop and governor out and all this started. I think there was also one of my youngest son in our previous plane. You are correct the filter and metal pics are from the day we removed the engine after the oil loss and failure. My limited flying since then has been mostly uneventful. I say mostly because I had a friend bring me up in his K after our episode to work the jitters out and we did encounter a bird. Bounced right off the top of the windshield thankfully other than blood and guts there was no damage to his plane. Most of the rest of my flying since being grounded has been in the local rentals with there darn wings on top.

Andy

[Rustler]

Andy--

 

Check your PMs.

[Ellioth]

During our '78 M20J's conversion from a -A3B6D to a -A3B6, Don Maxwell Aviation Services sent the governor away for "...flush, reseal and conversion to a T-22." Besides that, additional hardware included "lower half control cable clamp, throttle/prop control cable clamp half-upper, prop support bracket, and governor arm bellcrank."

 

We were pleased with our experiance at DMAS for the engine conversion/installation and annual inspection despite DMAS being a bit out of the way for us (NW Chicago suburbs).

[LAE]

That's the road we are headed down now. Have a new T22 being shipped today. Hopefully we'll be back in the air next week. Wish I'd caught that before I had paid to OH our T17 twice!! Lesson learned.