Need some opinions on N201EF

[par]

I'm thinking about looking into this J: http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=831646

 

I have not chatted with the owner yet but this J does have a history of electrical issues and several gear issues to include 2 gear up landings. The only details I have right now are what you see in the ad but based on that, what is your initial impression? I think given its history, it is overpriced by at least 5K. 

 

Par

[22 others]

Nothing useful to contribute here. We're in the same (planeless) boat. I do wonder why it has two transponders? 

[Marauder]

I'm thinking about looking into this J: http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=831646

I have not chatted with the owner yet but this J does have a history of electrical issues and several gear issues to include 2 gear up landings. The only details I have right now are what you see in the ad but based on that, what is your initial impression? I think given its history, it is overpriced by at least 5K.

Par

It says it is at KLNS. That is where the Weber's Mooney Service Center is located. I would see who is doing their maintenance. If it is Weber's, I would hope it is in good shape. There are a few of us in the area. Maybe one of us could do a flyby for you...

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[Marauder]

Nothing useful to contribute here. We're in the same (planeless) boat. I do wonder why it has two transponders?

I have been in a few planes with dual transponders. Some people who fly a lot of IFR like to have transponder redundancy.

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[jetdriven]

60 grand for a 201 with a fresh motor is a good deal.

[BigTex]

I'm not a fan of the throttle quadrant but if your interested in a 201, I'd definitely check it out!  Sadly, it seems way under priced.  Good deal for you, not so much for the rest of us.

[Hank]

I rather like the throttle quadrant in my C. Fine tuning requires a light touch, but I don't try to set RPMs to single digit accuracy, and my O-360 won't do LOP so I don't try to set the mixture to 0.1 gph or less either.

[Danb]

Give Dorn a call at Webers to see what he knows about the bird. Looks good in pix

[Z W]

Nice looking plane.  It's missing WAAS on the GPS, a 4-cylinder engine monitor, and a fuel flow gauge, I think (can't see one in the pics) but it looks to be priced accordingly.

 

I don't remember seeing any J's in flying condition at 60k a year ago, much less with a low time engine.

[Marauder]

I rather like the throttle quadrant in my C. Fine tuning requires a light touch, but I don't try to set RPMs to single digit accuracy, and my O-360 won't do LOP so I don't try to set the mixture to 0.1 gph or less either.

Plus when you take off with your fingers pushing everything forward on the quadrant, you got an urge to call out V speeds

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[nels]

This plane was discussed on the forum about a month ago. Fellow thought he needed a ferry permit.

[chrisk]

Is it possible for an aircraft to be cursed?

• 2009:  N201EF LANDED GEAR UP ON RUNWAY 6/24, AFTER EXPERIENCING ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS, WHILE ENROUTE FROM PROVIDENCE, RI. NO INJURIES REPORTED TO EITHER PILOT OR PASSENGER. AIRCRAFT WAS OPERATED ON IFR FLIGHT PLAN. INVESTIGATION REVEALED THAT THE 70 AMP. CIRCUIT BREAKER FOR THE ALTERNATOR POPPED DURING FLIGHT. BATTERY POWER WENT DEAD AFTER A SHORT TIME. THIS REQUIRED THE LANDING GEAR TO BE HAND CRANKED DOWN. PILOT STATED THAT HE THOUGHT THE LANDING GEAR WAS DOWN AND LOCKED, BUT UPON LANDING, THE LEFT LANDING GEAR COLLAPSED, WHICH CAUSED THE LANDING GEAR RODS TO BEND AND THE LANDING GEAR ACTUATOR TO COME APART. DAMAGE TO THE AIRCRAFT: BELLY SKINS, ANTENNAS, LEFT SIDE STEP, LANDING GEAR DOORS, LANDING RODS AND ACTUATOR, PROPELLER AND ENGINE.
• 1995:  FAILED TO EXTEND LANDING GEAR FOR LANDING
• 1984: ENGINE STARTED WHEN PROP WAS PULLED THROUGH. PASSINGER IN CABIN. STRUCK A PARKED AIRCRAFT.
• 1977: LG WOULD NOT EXTEND ON NORMAL,EMER EXT USED.INVEST REVEALED SHORT IN AUX BUS BAR BREAKER & BREAKER MT SCREWS LOOSE

Of course, it may have had something to do with the owner, but remember this was before GPS was common.

• And my favorite record from 1986:  FLEW INTO TCA WITHOUT A CLEARANCE

 

So, 3 issues with the landing gear not extending, and some other damage history.  

 

If I was buying this plane, I would want to see the 337s for the two gear ups first.  Depending on who did the gear work, I would probably push the owner to pay for Weber or Maxwell to re-rig the gear and check the pre-loads.  At a minimum, a detailed inspections of the rigging.  I would also be interested to know the history on the engine.  Presumably it got an engine overhaul in 2009, coincident with the gear up.   If so, it's seen a reasonable amount of flying since then (~80 hours a year), which is good.  But how much of that has been in the last year? 

[rbridges]

if everything checks out in the logs and pre purchase, it would be a smoking deal.

[teethdoc]

$60k for a low time J makes me want to vomit. I felt like I got a good deal a year ago, but now with the expense of an overhaul, I guess I'll lose money or keep it forever.

[Marauder]

It certainly has a history. The 2009 incident could be pilot error (not cranking the gear down fully. On a 77, it is a lot of cranks and you need to verify the floor indicator is showing gear down). The 1995 & 1984 incidents look like pilot error. I would be worried about the 1984 incident because it may have involved a wing. The 1977 incident was probably a quality issue since it was the same year as it was manufactured. Sent using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

$60k for a low time J makes me want to vomit. I felt like I got a good deal a year ago, but now with the expense of an overhaul, I guess I'll lose money or keep it forever.

You will come to make peace with yourself or drive yourself nuts trying to justify it... Think of it as owning a boat, just without the water... What rational people would; 1) spend ten of thousands of dollars for something that is 30+ years old and looks it 2) pay hundreds of dollars every month to keep it in a open T hangar that has ice for weeks outside the door in the winter or bees nests in the summer 3) be happy that the noise we heard in flight is only going to cost us $200 or that 4) we feel great that we paid $100 (times 11) for a chunk of rubber that costs $2.98 to make? Sent using Tapatalk

[rbridges]

$60k for a low time J makes me want to vomit. I felt like I got a good deal a year ago, but now with the expense of an overhaul, I guess I'll lose money or keep it forever.

 

the guy that paid for your Lopresti cowling knows that feeling.  btw, that sucker looks good.  

[teethdoc]

the guy that paid for your Lopresti cowling knows that feeling. btw, that sucker looks good.

Thanks, he never intended to sell it. When he passed away, his wife sold it. She hated to see it go too, but she was a non-pilot.

[jetdriven]

The gear ups aren't an issue, but it having flown through a TCA without a clearance renders it worthless

Seriously I would pay good money to have the whole gear system gone through and re-rigged. It's a detailed procedure and really takes someone who knows what they are doing (an MSC for example) to be sure it's right.

Our landing gear wasn't coming up all the way and the retract truss was hitting the up-stop. This necessitated adjusting both MLG and both nose gear pushrods to reposition the truss. That required a whole mess of adjustments to get the down preload just right. 77s especially only have a very fine tolerance to get the down preload. It took a couple hours of adjustments to get both correct.

Another note, even if the battery is nearly dead the gear will extend because the air pressure helps pull the gear down. Our other partner in the plane ran the battery so low nothing worked but the gear came down. The battery voltage was 8 volts. However I would engage the manual crank to be sure it is really locked. The motor cuts off when the light comes on but it overruns slightly which builds preload. If the gear is under-loaded it will still lock down with motor cutoff but with low voltage it may not.

[PTK]

FLEW INTO TCA WITHOUT A CLEARANCE

This kind of elusive damage history is tricky to evaluate and can come back to haunt you!

Need to ask probing questions and very thorough pre-buy. For example, which landing gear incident or incidents was this associated with?

Consult a professional aircraft appraiser for advice on applicable deduction!

[neilpilot]

This can be tricky to evaluate.

Consult a professional aircraft appraiser for advice on applicable deduction!

May be a reason to turn BOTH of the transponders OFF!

[rbridges]

• :  FLEW INTO TCA WITHOUT A CLEARANCE

 

 

 

This kind of elusive damage history is tricky to evaluate and can come back to haunt you!

 

 

yeah, it's kinda like airplane herpes.  

[par]

Well, I have come across some information and my initial suspicions are unfortunately correct…it's too good to be true. Fortunately there are plenty more on sale so I guess I will keep looking. Thanks once again.

 

Par

[quik flite]

Calling Weber Aircraft at KLNS where it is based is the best free advise you will ever get , Dorn will know it or with a careful inspection be able to tell you what you need to know , There is no one better than  Webers   to look at the plane, and they are always very reasonable. It may be a great deal , but your due diligence is required.

[markprice]

Well, I have come across some information and my initial suspicions are unfortunately correct…it's too good to be true. Fortunately there are plenty more on sale so I guess I will keep looking. Thanks once again.

 

Par

Do you mind sharing what information you came across?  I was looking at the same plane