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Great day to fly. Not so great outcome. Wing and Rudder damage.


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Dave in general any time a skin has to be replaced , the wing has to be removed and jigged to be done correctly ...... Big money......

IDK our plane had an outboard skin replaced and Parker's 252 had to have a skin replaced also. AFAIK neither was done in a jig.

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"jetdriven" IDK our plane had an outboard skin replaced and Parker's 252 had to have a skin replaced also. AFAIK neither was done in a jig.

I have seen a jig on a wing of a mooney and the wing was still on the plane. The jig was two "I" beams under the wing which attached at the tips, aileron hinge attach points, flap attach points and in the gear wells also. Some of the attach points we're removable but the wing was definitely still on the plane.

That being said they'll probable try to total it, but do a Vref print it out and argue with them. You know your plane that means a lot. AOPA has a free evaluation on the website, if you're not a member I'm sure someone will plug in your serial number, model, year, options and print one out for you. I hate to see these planes scrapped out.

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When you discuss the settlement, remember there will be the "damage history" in the aircraft log book with "some" loss of value. Be sure to include that in your estimations of what it will cost to "make you whole". The insured may try to poo-poo this concept, but it is a legitimate cost that will have to be negotiated.

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We had the right out wing skin replaced. It was done with factory precut sheet metal. The wing remained on the plane for the whole process. The only issue is that they wanted to use cherry max rivets for the box end of the wing. I insisted on flush rivets, which was not possible due to a lack of access to the inside of the wing tip. The decision was made to cut an additional access panel in each outer wing skin to facilitate bucking bar access to the rivet tails. I was pleased with the results. We painted both wing tips and did the repair for about $3500. The new aileron is going to be the priciest part of your endeavor, the only way I see this being a total loss is if you have spar damage. While a total is more likely if the spar has been "disturbed" it's not garaunteed.

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The Monday Update......

 

The first call I made this morning was to MY insurance company just to test the water and see if they would have any insight and advice.  I was very general in terms of a description as to what happened.  They said I should contact his insurance company and that if I didn't get attention and results within a reasonable time to advise them and they will help with my claim....as much of the advice on this forum has suggested.  

 

I called his insurance company around noon and they already knew about the issue and forwarded the information to an adjuster.  She got back to me within minutes and asked if I had a shop in mind to do the repair.  She will also travel to L08 sometime this week to check out the damage and take detailed pics (which I did not....).  I also contacted Mike at Lasar.  Depending on what the detailed pics indicate and the extent of the damage they would coordinate a repair at L08 and ferry to their shop.  

 

The adjuster also suggested that this might work out like a turn key type of operation.  Other parties would pick up the aircraft, fly it to the repair facility and then fly it back to my home airport.  Sounds pretty good if that would actually happen.

 

I am out of town all week and can't do anything locally but it looks like it might not matter.

 

So far all is pretty good all things considered.  But if I have learned one thing in my years in aviation, never count on promises or rumors until the deal is totally done.

 

more to come.......

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lessons learned so far in this not so pleasant event:

 

Carry enough liability insurance.

 

I do not carry enough liability insurance to replace my aircraft.  When I came up with an initial figure at the origination of my insurance policy I considered my purchase price along with the current market value of similar aircraft.  I assumed that if I ever had to make a claim it would have been my fault and that $30K would be what I would be satisfied with, considering that I would be responsible for any incident.  What I did not consider was an issue that was not my fault.  Most on this board know that the sale price of an aircraft is just the start of expenses you will likely incur on a new purchase.  $30K is way to low.

 

Filing third party insurance claims can cost you a lot of money out of pocket short term.

 

I am filing a third party claim (dealing directly with his insurance company).  I don’t feel I have any other option if I want to get my aircraft back or something comparable.  My liability insurance is so low that if I file a claim through my insurance company they will likely consider the A/C a total loss and pay me $30K max (cost of repair plus salvage value plus expenses very likely more than $30K).  Since my insurance company is not involved (for now), I have to come up with the cash up front to fix the A/C.  Once I ‘sign off’ on the repairs his insurance company will pay me directly for repairs and expenses.  I am not sure if this practice is insurance industry standard when dealing with third party claims.  In my case the cost of repairs and expenses are significant.  The current estimate for the repair is roughly $19K (minimum).  BTW, his insurance company offered me $20K to settle which I respectfully declined.  IF the figure was higher I might have at least considered it.  I am more than a little concerned that there might be other expenses not yet accounted for.

 

Legal counsel through the AOPA PPP has not been great.

 

I am enrolled in the AOPA’s pilot protection program and did make inquiries concerning this event.  They gave me a list of attorneys and I contacted 4 of them.  Three returned my phone calls.  Of the three, none were in my eyes terribly impressive in their knowledge or guidance on how I should proceed and I received what seemed to be conflicting advice.  I am not sure the reason for this but can or rather hate to speculate.  The AOPA list of attorneys is fairly extensive but I think if you want good aviation related counsel you may be better off doing some research on attorneys on your own, especially when dealing with civil matters.  That said, I have not given up on the AOPA thing yet.

 

Significant loss of time spent dealing with this issue.

 

Since I am choosing to deal with this myself instead of letting my insurance company handle this, my time input has been significant.  This is not trivial in my case.  His insurance will not cover any of this expense.  It would be far easier to make a phone call, file a claim and let others deal with whatever comes up.

 

LASAR is great.

 

No secret here.  They have been very accommodating and are very flexible on the finance terms and many other issues regarding this event.

 

As far as the current plan for the repair of N2935L, LASAR is going to ship parts to SoCal and have contacted a mechanic to hang an aileron and rudder, straighten some skin and then get a ferry permit for a flight to 1O2.  Hopefully it will be there in a couple of weeks.

 

I hope no one finds themselves in this type of situation.   I know I will l do what I can not to put myself in this predicament in the future.

 

more updates to follow as things progress.......

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Sorry to hear about  your  troubles.  I guess my claim  was fairly easy but incident was totally my fault and took my lumps that I created. I handled  the claim myself and including repair and had  contracted with great A&P to my sheet metal work . Fortunately I didn't have to  deal with legal realm nor did I have deal with 2nd or 3rd party insurance companies.  Wow $20K sounds like an insult to me. 

Did they find any damage  wing rear spar  where the Aileron attaches ?

Thank for the update.

Hope you get back in the air soon .

 

James

'67M20C

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Negotiating with a insurance adjuster is a lot like buying a used car or house. Since you are dealing with the other parties insurance you have the right to ask for all damages and losses you have incurred due to their policy holder damaging your aircraft. If you can show it is a loss or related expense they are on the hook for it. They can't just say we don't cover that. Keep detailed records and ask them to cover everything. If they don't want to provide some money as the repairs progress then ask for interest on your money you spend. The adjusters job is to settle a cheaply as possible, it's your job to get everything owed to you.

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To Otto-

 

Thank you so much for posting your experience. I'm sure it's a horrible ordeal for you, but for us it's an education and a bit of a drama unfolding. This is just as educational as any "never again" after accident report. If anybody can, the boys at LASAR will fix 35L right up I bet you it will fly even better than before. I bet you pick a knot or two! ;) 

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Apologize if it has already been said on this thread, but

 

(first, so sorry for your loss)

 

Get your airplane under the eyes of a good mooney mechanic familiar with structural repair to make sure your wing is OK!! The control surfaces should not be a big deal. Damage to the wing, or if it got tweaked in any way... that is what to figure out ASAP before the insurance dust settles.

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Your experience with the other insurance company is similar to one I had where a guy pulled out in front of me and my boat (on trailer) and I T boned him. Totaled my truck, boat (19 ft MAKO Openfishermna) and trailer. The boat came foward up over the tailgate and over the right rail of the pick up bed, then went 50 ft down the road! No injuries ! I did get a decent settlement so I got a new truck and bought my first airplane! This was in 2000. A LOT of work that I did not get compensated for.

BILL

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Otto,

I had a similar experience with the AOPA PPP. What I don't understand is why you have to pay for the repairs yourself first? Is the shop asking for prepayment? I'm very friendly with one of local repair stations. These guys do some very involved jobs, but I've never heard of them asking to be prepaid on an insurance job. Dave (N601RX) is spot on in his advice.

Can you give more detail about the above?

I've said it before, the insured hull value on your plane has jack sh%# to do with this. Be polite, be direct, making it clear that it is absolutely unacceptable for you to absorb any costs for their client's negligence. Down time for repairs is a legitimate cost to you. From what you've posted, you did not contribute to this incident in any way; you should have should not have to contribute to the cost of repairing your property. I would call the CA department of Insurance consumer division if you get any push back at all... 800-927-HELP (4357)

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Thanks for the advice.  I am still working on many issues especially having his insurance company pay the repair shop directly without me fronting the cash.  If I can't convince them to do this by tomorrow I will definitely drop a dime to the CA Insurance Consumer division....I had not even thought of that (or knew something like that existed).......much thanks....

 

The good news is that the ball is rolling.....parts were sent to SoCal this week...hopefully a ferry to NoCal will happen soon.

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