Mooney Crash in Boyne MI

[BorealOne]

Gents - don't underestimate the utility of a nice warm hanger for winter flying. Yes, stuff can melt and refreeze, but that's rare in my experience. Obviously you have to pay attention to any wing contamination. The benefits however far outweigh the downsides - given the choice, it's a no-brainer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The-sky-captain]

Terrible. RIP and condolences to the loved ones that lost these two gentlemen.

[Marauder]

Was the pilot a member of MooneySpace?

[Shadrach]

Running TKS on the ground with no airflow would do little besides make a mess.

There's a reason why you don't depart with an airfoil that's been altered/ contaminated by frost or ice. If you don't have full tanks, the wing skins will not remain above freezing for very long in 10 degree weather. Moral of the story here is don't dilly dally with your machine outside in frozen precip if your bird has been in a heated hangar. Once under way, snow will not come into contact with the top of the wings...

[aviatoreb]

Running TKS on the ground with no airflow would do little besides make a mess.

There's a reason why you don't depart with an airfoil that's been altered/ contaminated by frost or ice. If you don't have full tanks, the wing skins will not remain above freezing for very long in 10 degree weather. Moral of the story here is don't dilly dally with your machine outside in frozen precip if your bird has been in a heated hangar. Once under way, snow will not come into contact with the top of the wings...

 

I agree absolutely.  And that is not what I do - if there is ice on my wing, I don't consider trying to leave the ground.  If there is ice that I know is right above me in the air, I also don't go.  I was just wondering out loud what might have happened here.  I agree that TKS on the ground will not fix an already iced wing and is in no way a good idea for thinking one could depart with ice on the wing, or delaying departure with snow falling on the wing.  With my remark I was wondering out loud the following of what could have unfolded.  If the wing was iced before departure, then I would think that it might not have gotten off the ground.  It obviously did get off the ground so my guess was that if it was an icing problem it was encountered in the air perhaps immediately after departure.  Since it takes a couple of minutes to prime the tks system, then if they were knowingly departing into icing then they would want to prime the system before they depart.

[ArtVandelay]

This plane had 3 FAA incidents prior to this...

RIP

[phecksel]

This plane had 3 FAA incidents prior to this...

RIP

I saw the nose gear collapse on FB, what else was there?

[BorealOne]

On TKS use prior to departure, Erik, you're correct on the need to prime the TKS prior to departure. My SOP on days when there is precip and high probability of icing on take off is to brush off any contamination and to apply TKS to control and lift surfaces prior to departure using a garden sprayer just before start-up. I will then prime the TKS during run-up and engage the system on the roll.

[ArtVandelay]

I saw the nose gear collapse on FB, what else was there?

79 - gear collapse according to pilot (probably not extended)

84 - crash because of fuel starvation (this generated NTSB investigation)

09 - nose wheel snapped off

[Marauder]

79 - gear collapse according to pilot (probably not extended) 84 - crash because of fuel starvation (this generated NTSB investigation)

Those were from the previous owner of the N number. The N number was reassigned to this 2000 Ovation. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Shadrach]

I agree absolutely.  And that is not what I do - if there is ice on my wing, I don't consider trying to leave the ground.  If there is ice that I know is right above me in the air, I also don't go.  I was just wondering out loud what might have happened here.  I agree that TKS on the ground will not fix an already iced wing and is in no way a good idea for thinking one could depart with ice on the wing, or delaying departure with snow falling on the wing.  With my remark I was wondering out loud the following of what could have unfolded.  If the wing was iced before departure, then I would think that it might not have gotten off the ground.  It obviously did get off the ground so my guess was that if it was an icing problem it was encountered in the air perhaps immediately after departure.  Since it takes a couple of minutes to prime the tks system, then if they were knowingly departing into icing then they would want to prime the system before they depart.

Icing could have certainly been a factor, being that icing is most prevalent between 0 and -10C. Surface temps were -10C and it's possible they climbed into an inversion and got frosted immediately. However, those are conditions that both the pilot and the flight service would be aware of.

[phecksel]

Prelim report out

On January 6, 2014, at 0700 eastern standard time, a Mooney M20R airplane, N1046L, collided with trees and terrain about 1 mile east of the Boyne City Municipal Airport (KN98), Boyne City, Michigan. The private pilot and the passenger on board were both fatally injured. The airplane was substantially damaged from impact with the terrain and a post impact fire. The airplane was registered to Chair Covers Leasing, Inc., and operated by the private pilot under the provision of 14 Code of Federal Regulations 91. The purpose of the flight is unknown at this time. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan was filed. The flight was originating at the time of the accident with a destination of the Oakland/Troy Airport (KVLL), Troy, Michigan.

The airplane departed KN98 just prior to the accident. At 0655, the weather conditions recorded at the Charlevoix Municipal Airport (KCVX), Charlevoix, Michigan, located 16 miles northwest of the accident site were: wind from 340 degrees at 18 knots gusting to 27 knots, visibility 2.5 miles with light snow, sky condition 2,600 broken, 3,200 broken, 4,200 overcast, temperature -12 degrees Celsius, dew point -16 degrees Celsius, and altimeter 29.76 inches of mercury.

The pilot used a commercial computerized flight planning service to file the IFR flight plan. The flight plan included a proposed departure time from KN98 of 0715. The route of flight was direct to the Grayling very high frequency omnidirectional range (VOR) then direct to KVLL. There were no known communications between the airplane and air traffic control.

 

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20140106X13945&key=1

[bnicolette]

Running TKS on the ground with no airflow would do little besides make a mess.

Moral of the story here is don't dilly dally with your machine outside in frozen precip if your bird has been in a heated hangar. Once under way, snow will not come into contact with the top of the wings...

This is why if you are in a heated hangar you should "cold soak" the airplane (open the hangar doors and let it get cold) before taking it out. Then snow wont stick to it.

[Cruiser]

Here are some facts.

The crash site was 1 mile east of the airport

Ceilings were 2,600 broken

wind was 340@18

temp was -12°C

 

My Assumptions

they never made it into the clouds so there was no in flight icing

NTSB report does not say the direction of flight (away from the airport or returning to the airport)

two people and full fuel would put them near gross in an Ovation but I don't know if they had full fuel.

There was only a small fire in the wreckage put out by a hand extinguisher (when the rescue team arrived it may have burned out before then)

 

Possible engine problems

Possible frozen fuel lines

Possible control issues

Possible human issues (heart attach/stroke)

A hundred other things.

 

The least possible of these was an airframe icing problem

[aviatoreb]

Here are some facts.

The crash site was 1 mile east of the airport

Ceilings were 2,600 broken

wind was 340@18

temp was -12°C

 

My Assumptions

they never made it into the clouds so there was no in flight icing

NTSB report does not say the direction of flight (away from the airport or returning to the airport)

two people and full fuel would put them near gross in an Ovation but I don't know if they had full fuel.

There was only a small fire in the wreckage put out by a hand extinguisher (when the rescue team arrived it may have burned out before then)

 

Possible engine problems

Possible frozen fuel lines

Possible control issues

Possible human issues (heart attach/stroke)

A hundred other things.

 

The least possible of these was an airframe icing problem

 

This will be one that will require the NTSB to give us some information.  We are all over the place on our guesses.  I think we just don't know.  But we want to know because we want to know how to ensure it does not happen to us, that we don't repeat the mistakes if there were any.  And it is even more upsetting if there was not an obvious pilot error mistake of the sort that we might be able to convince ourselves that we might not make, rather than a freak accident that we cannot prevent.  

 

I am guessing that it was some cold engine issue engine failure or fuel issue of the sort discussed in other threads lately, but not icing.  It sounds as if the plane was not over gross, and in any case if it were close to gross then at 10F he might have gotten away with it.

[wiguy]

 I flew the other day, it was -5 or so when I cranked. This was after a night of engine preheat & later a cockpit space heater, parked in an unheated hangar. The rest was clear & cold, no precip.

 

   Don't know what happened here, but the wx doesn't seem terrible. One would think the pilot would peek at the wings & make sure they were clear & clean before taking off. Just a mile or so beyond the airport isn't very far. If they left the ground clean, I doubt if inflight icing had time to manifest itself.

 

   The next may be engine & fuel issues, seems they didn't get to a cloud yet. Anyway, sad, sorry to hear.

[marks]

While we don't know what caused the crash we should all remember the old advice that in the case of a lost engine after take off, fly straight ahead into the wind at slowest controllable airspeed to reduce ground speed and make only shallow turns to right or left for best landing location.  Twice the speed results in four times the force.  If the pilot chooses to make the U-turn and the aircraft fails to make it back to the airport, and headwinds become tailwinds, hitting a stand of trees is the last mistake you'll make.