phecksel Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 News sources are reporting the plane as being based in Oakland Troy. Two on board killed. Names of deceased have not been released, pending notifications. I did a little searching, and it looks like a long fuselage M20 that had a prior nose gear collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Horrible news. May they rest in peace. There's no worst way to start the new year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 If it's the same plane/person I think it is, reading a little blurb on his nose gear collapse was disconcerting, "My first and last Plane Crash" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketAviator Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Was it N10146L? I dont know who owns that plane or who was in the crash but my prayers are with the two that died family. I see it in some photos. Here is one photo of N10146L that I found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 FB photo I found only shows three numbers, but it matches your photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Was it N10146L? I dont know who owns that plane or who was in the crash but my prayers are with the two that died family. I see it in some photos. Here is one photo of N10146L that I found. N1046L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Marten Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Most likely the accident chain will start with a case of poor decision making launching into some pretty unfavorable winter weather. High winds, snow, IFR, low-vis. Pilot was familiar with the route and probably thought he could easily make the 180NM hop regardless of the winter conditions (get-home-itis?). 7am launch into IMC,wind, and snow in order to make it back to work Monday morning? Stay vigilant. Review your own GO/NO-GO decision making. We bet our lives on our judgement and skill in our flying machines. When placing that bet do everything you can to ensure the odds are in your favor! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=163048 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywarrior Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 "Officials say they have found two bodies at the crash site, one of them is the pilot of the plane. WDIV is reporting the victims on the crash were Todd Glen Lloyd, 51, and Christopher Neumann, 38. The two men were leaving the Boyne City airport and may have been flying downstate to Birmingham. Lloyd was the pilot and owner of the plane registered to Chair Cover Holdings in Madison Heights. WDIV is reporting he and Neumann were skiing at Boyne Mountain over the weekend and were originally planning to leave Sunday evening but delayed their departure until this morning due to the weather." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 What I want to know is what they did to rip a mooney into pieces. That is hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 What I want to know is what they did to rip a mooney into pieces. That is hard to do. Based on the description of the crash site, it went through a tree stand. They can tear up a plane, even a Mooney, pretty badly. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 This is one that I would like to see the final report on, it looks to have the potential for a good learning senerio, unfortunately it cost the lives of two people. I prefer to learn with out the loss of life or aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 It's easy to sit on the ground in judgement of their decision making... I've made a couple of decisions that I shouldn't have made. I'd like to attribute the fact that I'm still here to skills that exceeded bad judgement, but I honestly believe my plane loved me. Friend of mine explained that he always considers what the accident report will show as part of his go/no go decision making process. This accident baffles me. I've flown into IFR in bitter cold, airframe icing is non existent at those temps. Ovation should climb like crazy through the weather, but I don't know what the tops were. I would lean towards pilot medical, or if he did something really silly and kept the plane in a heated hangar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple8s Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Explain the "kept the plane in a heated hangar "...... I think I know but go ahead and spell it out. I always want to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Horrible way to start the day. None of us are in invincible. RIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulro767 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I too would like to know how keeping a plane in a heated hang is silly or dangerous.??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 at least one report suggests they were returning to the airport after takeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 It was likely snowing there. wings above freezing temperature will melt the snow and refreeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmyfm20s Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Interesting and good to know! The heated hangar has always seemed to be the gold standard for preheating but what your saying makes since. If its snowing out and the airframe doesn't have time to acclimate stick with an engine preheater. I just prefer not to fly in the snow I have a few times that I followed my GPS plot back to the airport even though I was technically legal VFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have had dew turn to ice on my wings during an early morning preflight, the wing temps were down close to freezing, and as the morning dew started forming it became ice on the wings, nothing I could do to prevent it. needless to I postponed the flight for a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 It was likely snowing there. wings above freezing temperature will melt the snow and refreeze. This is really only an issue if warm plane plane sits stationary outside in frozen precip that melts and then refreezes. Please shed some light on the dangers, as I had always chalked this up to an old wives tale.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 This is really only an issue if warm plane plane sits stationary outside in frozen precip that melts and then refreezes. Please shed some light on the dangers, as I had always chalked this up to an old wives tale.. you got it right, if the wings are warm, pull it out of the hangar where snow hits the cold wing, melts or partially melts and then refreezes. Not an OWT, I had that happen to me as snow blew off the top of the hangar on the wing. I delayed my trip for almost an hour while I waited for it to remelt back inside the heated hangar, wiped it off, turned off the heat and let the wing chill to ambient. I stopped heating the hangar after that, just the engine, with a small electric space heater inside the cockpit. At homecoming one year, we had a spirited conversation about winter flying. Someone had painted just the leading edge a dark color with the thought of ice melting faster due to the color... nice idea, except what it did was create an ice ridge right at the interface between dark and light, which destroyed lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 This is really only an issue if warm plane plane sits stationary outside in frozen precip that melts and then refreezes. Please shed some light on the dangers, as I had always chalked this up to an old wives tale.. I read an AOPA report about a King Air that crashed a few years ago due to this problem. They had pulled the plane out of a heated hangar, then spent 20 minutes inside eating breakfast while it snowed softly outside, then they had a real problem during take off role with what was now a thin layer of ice on the whole plane. No one survived. I see in the pictures that this ovation had tks. I wonder what that would do once airborne if they had run it on the ground before departure, which you would think they would do if it was snowing. I would not think the airplane would get airborn if it had too much ice. Now mind you - I am just talking off the cuff - I don't really know anything. Until I read this particular possible interpretation, I was thinking about this poor airplane all day, and I was wondering if some of the strange cold effects that we were discussing on the other threads could have been the issue. Burst oil cooler? Frozen fuel lines? Except I read they departed at 10F which while chilly is not the kind of severe arctic stuff I would think of as causing the weird stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 If it's the same plane/person I think it is, reading a little blurb on his nose gear collapse was disconcerting, "My first and last Plane Crash" Where did he say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Where did he say that? It was on a photo he had on his facebook page. The accident happened in 2009, nose gear collapsed and the airplane went off the runway. Someone has since logged into his account and removed that one and several photos of his nieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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