Bit the bullet, ordered TKS

[M016576]

Where is the 30K more coming from? It used to be 30K to install inadvertent and now is 60K or so to install FIKI if I recall correctly. There are a few hours of labor to remove the old TKS panels if you want full FIKI but it's not 30K extra per se, it's still 60K plus a few hours of labor.

Gosh, what crooks: the panels, hoses, pump, slinger, ice light, tank, spray bar and electrical interface are all identical between the two installs... To think that a company can get away with an up charge like that when all they would really have to do is add a single extra pump and heat the fuel tank tubes is border line criminal. But I guess that's their way of getting everyone to buy the FIKI system right out of the gates. It would be hard to justify the 60k to buy the FIKI if you could just buy the (essentially the same, although lacking the backup pump) 30K inadvertent system and upgrade it to FIKI for the cost of the $500 pump and $100 bucks in extra tubing and wires.

The price of "certification" rears it's ugly head.

[aviatoreb]

Gosh, what crooks: the panels, hoses, pump, slinger, ice light, tank, spray bar and electrical interface are all identical between the two installs... To think that a company can get away with an up charge like that when all they would really have to do is add a single extra pump and heat the fuel tank tubes is border line criminal. But I guess that's their way of getting everyone to buy the FIKI system right out of the gates. It would be hard to justify the 60k to buy the FIKI if you could just buy the (essentially the same, although lacking the backup pump) 30K inadvertent system and upgrade it to FIKI for the cost of the $500 pump and $100 bucks in extra tubing and wires.

The price of "certification" rears it's ugly head.

 

Scuddle has that that extra (30k extra worth) of pump is actually identical in specs to a soft serve ice cream pump. $150.

[AndyFromCB]

Scuddle has that that extra (30k extra worth) of pump is actually identical in specs to a soft serve ice cream pump. $150.

 

Almost ;-) The pump motor is about $200 bucks and comes from a food/lab equipment german company, the "awesome" metal casing it an extra $2800 because that's what CAV charges for a replacement pump. I have a few "repaired ones" sitting on my shelf, no 8130 unfortunately, but hangar fairy don't need no stinking 8130...

[IndyTim]

Scuddle has that that extra (30k extra worth) of pump is actually identical in specs to a soft serve ice cream pump. $150.

It's somewhat academic debating the difference between FIKI and non-FIKI since the installer and CAV Aerospace would not even provide a quote for non-FIKI. On my 252, it's $57,385 for installation of the TKS system, which happens to be FIKI certified.

But even that is academic at this point, since as of last week the only Mooney installer has been placed in receivership, along with my deposits for TKS and avionics. CAV Aerospace refuses to ship my TKS kit to the installer unless said installer coughs up cash for the kit. I've been spending a lot of sleepless nights waiting for word from the receiver on what is happening with my deposists.

Word to the wise, which in hindsight I apparently ain't: pay for your equipment up front, get title to it. That way you can walk away with what you paid for. Or, insist on a non-deposit deal if you can get away with it.

[RocketAviator]

It's somewhat academic debating the difference between FIKI and non-FIKI since the installer and CAV Aerospace would not even provide a quote for non-FIKI. On my 252, it's $57,385 for installation of the TKS system, which happens to be FIKI certified.

But even that is academic at this point, since as of last week the only Mooney installer has been placed in receivership, along with my deposits for TKS and avionics. CAV Aerospace refuses to ship my TKS kit to the installer unless said installer coughs up cash for the kit. I've been spending a lot of sleepless nights waiting for word from the receiver on what is happening with my deposists.

Word to the wise, which in hindsight I apparently ain't: pay for your equipment up front, get title to it. That way you can walk away with what you paid for. Or, insist on a non-deposit deal if you can get away with it.

So sorry to hear... Hope u can get it worked out.

[jetdriven]

It's somewhat academic debating the difference between FIKI and non-FIKI since the installer and CAV Aerospace would not even provide a quote for non-FIKI. On my 252, it's $57,385 for installation of the TKS system, which happens to be FIKI certified.

But even that is academic at this point, since as of last week the only Mooney installer has been placed in receivership, along with my deposits for TKS and avionics. CAV Aerospace refuses to ship my TKS kit to the installer unless said installer coughs up cash for the kit. I've been spending a lot of sleepless nights waiting for word from the receiver on what is happening with my deposists.

Word to the wise, which in hindsight I apparently ain't: pay for your equipment up front, get title to it. That way you can walk away with what you paid for. Or, insist on a non-deposit deal if you can get away with it.

What the F?

[IndyTim]

What the F?

My sentiments as well. I'll let you know what happens. My current assumption is that I'll have to kiss a big chunk of cash goodbye. Or wait a long, long time to see pennies on the dollar.

But, I will say that the installer has not gone dark, that the DOM and I are talking, and he is trying hard to do what is right for his customers including getting the poor birds that are already in his shop back to flyable state.

That would have been my worst nightmare, btw, so I'm glad I got the news before I delivered my plane to them.

[Marauder]

It's somewhat academic debating the difference between FIKI and non-FIKI since the installer and CAV Aerospace would not even provide a quote for non-FIKI. On my 252, it's $57,385 for installation of the TKS system, which happens to be FIKI certified.

But even that is academic at this point, since as of last week the only Mooney installer has been placed in receivership, along with my deposits for TKS and avionics. CAV Aerospace refuses to ship my TKS kit to the installer unless said installer coughs up cash for the kit. I've been spending a lot of sleepless nights waiting for word from the receiver on what is happening with my deposists.

Word to the wise, which in hindsight I apparently ain't: pay for your equipment up front, get title to it. That way you can walk away with what you paid for. Or, insist on a non-deposit deal if you can get away with it.

Tim -- I ran into a similar situation with my avionics upgrade. The company owner died and there was concerns over the business surviving. I paid for the equipment upfront in order to get the rebates offered and take advantage of the great prices they gave me. But rather than them holding the equipment while waiting for installation, I worked out a deal for me to take possession of the boxes with them holding the trays. They were afraid that I would take the equipment elsewhere for installation. If they did go belly up, my total exposure were the installation trays.

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[aviatoreb]

It's somewhat academic debating the difference between FIKI and non-FIKI since the installer and CAV Aerospace would not even provide a quote for non-FIKI. On my 252, it's $57,385 for installation of the TKS system, which happens to be FIKI certified.

But even that is academic at this point, since as of last week the only Mooney installer has been placed in receivership, along with my deposits for TKS and avionics. CAV Aerospace refuses to ship my TKS kit to the installer unless said installer coughs up cash for the kit. I've been spending a lot of sleepless nights waiting for word from the receiver on what is happening with my deposists.

Word to the wise, which in hindsight I apparently ain't: pay for your equipment up front, get title to it. That way you can walk away with what you paid for. Or, insist on a non-deposit deal if you can get away with it.

 

Ugh - I am sorry to hear for the possible legal hiccup hear.  Hopefully it will smooth out soon.

 

With regard to TKS - I can say this - it is a very worthwhile thing to have and if you can afford it, then by all means it is worth it.  And considering cost wise what it would cost to get into a FIKI cirrus or some such, a FIKI upgrade to your 252 is a bargain and money well spent.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Get yourself a mic'd mask if you intend to suck the hose in the flight levels. No wonder you felt like shit after sitting at 21k for 3 hrs on a cannula.

 

FWIW, I fly almost exclusively in the flight levels and have never used a mic'd mask. You're communicating with ATC so infrequently up there that it's not really an issue. I prefer the lighter weight, non-mic'd masks. Having said that, when my current masks wear out I'll probably try a mic'd mask to see what I've been missing.

[IndyTim]

..

[sbusuttil]

Wondering which shop is now in receivership?

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[IndyTim]

Airnet. Columbus, Ohio (KLCK)

What is sickening (from my perspective) is that all pre-receivership customer deposits are frozen, yet the company is trying to sell new installs.

[sbusuttil]

Thanks, all should be careful. Agree - that is sad and should not be aloud.

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[aviatoreb]

Airnet. Columbus, Ohio (KLCK)

What is sickening (from my perspective) is that all pre-receivership customer deposits are frozen, yet the company is trying to sell new installs.

 

Oh no, this is horrible.  I am so sorry to hear of your troubles.  Are you considering legal action?

[IndyTim]

Yes, several actually since the legal mess is spread across at least 3 states.

[N601RX]

Tim,

Sorry to hear about this. Hopefully the deposit was on the smaller side. I remember a post from one of the regulars on the beech site a few years ago where the same thing happened to him on an avionics upgrade after the shop had removed all his old stuff from the plane. I hope you get everything worked out. At least it sounds like your shop is still open.

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=48235

[IndyTim]

Thanks for the support. i wish i could report that the deposits were small, but they were not.

I do continue to have hopes that the receiver will bless moving foward. They have a full glass panel sitting in their shop with my name on it, but without the receiver, the primary lender, and the judge to agree, nothing will happen.

CAV Aerospace is refusing to ship them my TKS kit, since apparently they owe CAV $$$.

I am glad that I did not have my plane there when the receiver took over.

[Jimhamilton]

As for me, I would rather sit on the ground or divert to my alternate then temp flying into known icing conditions. It seems that some here are pushing their luck. Even with a FIKI certified Mooney I would not feel comfortable. For most of us the Mooney is not certified for any flight into icing conditions. For me this means that if the temps are close to freezing and I have visible moisture or visibility at one mile or less it's a no go. I know some like to get into the soup to test the water so to speak. I believe this to be a very poor practice and will get you into trouble. Just my opinion. God Bless

[Parker_Woodruff]

There are plenty of times where it makes sense to have a FIKI Mooney, even if you're very cautious about proceeding into icing conditions. I can't tell you how many times I had to change altitude or alter course because I was somewhere between 15,000 and FL210 and there was some small cloud layer that would have put ice on the wings.

There are plenty of times that once could be in and out of clouds on an approach and pick up some ice.

Not every icing experience is enough to overload a FIKI plane. Many are, in fact, very light encounters that pose no risk to safety when a FIKI system is onboard

There are also icing encounters where not even airliners should be flying.

[aaronk25]

What about last week when I left Kansas for MN and the ride was to rough down low at 7k and tops were at 12k with light icing in the top and clear above??? TKS would have been nice. I don't have it so once on top I spend the next hour waiting to get my 5-7kts of airspeed back because the small amount of light ice dirtied up the wing just enough to slow the plane down and rob some performance from a already down on performance non-turbo J.

Even a little I've on leading edge is similar to flying in the rain. 5kts is gone immediately. Even inadvertent TKS would have been great! In this situations I had outs such as descending or doing a 180 degree turn but climbing at best rate which exponentially decreases above 9k in a J dragging along right at the tops seeing sunlight picking up ice is no fun.

Next bird will have TKS.

[jetdriven]

Aaron, that 5kt loss is the loss of laminar flow. With TKS you have it all the time, not just with ice on the plane.

[aviatoreb]

Aaron, that 5kt loss is the loss of laminar flow. With TKS you have it all the time, not just with ice on the plane.

 

Doh!

 

(Quoting Homer Simpson.)

[richardheitzman]

That really bugs me that has happened to you. I always wonder why owners are so hesitant to put a deposit down on a program, and your example has shown a light on the issue. Who is going to put up thousands of dollars in deposits to see it melt away when a company fails. 

 

I am sure they knew they were going to close up shop. That is never a surprise. How unethical they must be. That is so frustrating and sad. To do business like that causes the rest of us to have a harder time of it. 

 

I really hope it works out for you. I hope you have the ability to absorb the loss and move on. 

[nationwide]

Any updates?  I hope that things have gone well for you since March.