JUST A LITTLE WARNING FOR YOU GUYS

[gsxrpilot]

36 minutes ago, MTodd said:

I just across this thread, so I apologize for the late reply.  However, I am once again in the market for a Mooney, so I just felt I had to respond.  My story is as follows:  way back in 2002, I bought a 1964 Mooney M20E from a total crook in San Antonia named Rich Zephro (now dead).  He completely lied about the plane, and I came to find out later actually made a false annual entry in the logbook, since the plane had actually been out of annual for over a year.  Anyway, I also had a pre-buy inspection completed by Ron Fisher (who Mr. Zephro recommended).  I doubt this guy even looked at the plane.  When I arrived to look at the plane, I saw the left aileron was dented and dinged.  The left elevator was also damaged ("hangar rash" according to Fisher).  However, I had already put a down payment on the plane and since Ron Fisher had said it was airworthy, I felt obliged to proceed.

On the way home, I started to learn of my mistake.  With regard to the avionics, one of the KX170B's did not work, and was actually not even hooked up to the indicator, which I learned when I was flying it home to Oregon.  When I had the annual completed the following year by Tom at Reliant Aviation, he determined it was not airworthy.  Ater repairing the damage to control surfaces, Tom also found that the plane had suffered a tail strike such that the entire tail assembly needed work.  All-in-all, I was out some $15K in repairs.

Now, I don't know anything about All American Aircraft, but if they are anything like Rich Zephro (who again, did business in the same town), I would stay clear of them.  And, for Ron Fisher, this guy should have his A&P license revoked.  Absolutely do not buy anything this guy has looked at and stay away from anyone who recommends him.  Buyer beware!

I know you only have one post on this board and that will likely get you ignored, but besmirching All American like this on no evidence whatsoever will certainly get you ignored on this board. I know this is just an Internet forum but even this type of ignorance is inappropriate.

A buyer beware notice is interesting and you could have left it at that. And since you "don't know anything about All American Aircraft", you should have restricted your opinion to things you do know something about.

[carusoam]

Welcome back aboard, MT.

Speaking ill of the dead doesn't get you very far in life.

Speaking ill of one of the best resources (unrelated to your first statement) for buying used Mooneys doesn't help your case.

 

Take a deep breath, cool-off and start over.  Your credibility is at risk by proceeding in this fashion.  No need for that.

You will find MooneySpace to be a relatively small community.  Staying with the issues and sticking to the facts are greatly appreciated.  Staying on topic is difficult in itself...

If you happen to buy a plane from a well known seller.  You are still responsible to select a reputable independent shop to perform the Pre-purchase inspection.  This is protecting your wallet 101.  This probably won't ever change.  PPIs are your best defense, but they aren't going to be perfect either.

If you want to find similar company there is a thread titled f the FAA or something like that.  Similar mistake by a guy that could have known better.  Of course his mistake was found by the FAA walking the ramp.  Hangar rash and other damage is something to be found and discussed during a good PPI.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[PTK]

The Mooney community is very small and news, both good and bad, travels fast. Unfortunately bad news travels faster than good! 

If you have something good to say tell as many people as you can!

If not, don't say anything!

[Yetti]

So 2002, the guy is dead, nothing to do with AAA.    How is the plane doing 14 years later? Have you had any good trips in it lately?

[Marauder]

I take all these opinions as data points. I have heard negative stories secondhand and have firsthand negative experience for some of the shops some of you claim are excellent. It is a matter of perspective. If I got charged $10k for an annual and I felt it was justified, so be it. But if I got charged $200 for something that I feel shouldn't be that expensive, I'm not happy.

Same goes for the customer experience afterwards. We have choices.

And Anthony -- Hitler was a bast$&d, almost killed my Dad (and took me out in the process). Speaking ill of some dead people ain't so bad.

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[thinwing]

2 hours ago, MTodd said:

I just across this thread, so I apologize for the late reply.  However, I am once again in the market for a Mooney, so I just felt I had to respond.  My story is as follows:  way back in 2002, I bought a 1964 Mooney M20E from a total crook in San Antonia named Rich Zephro (now dead).  He completely lied about the plane, and I came to find out later actually made a false annual entry in the logbook, since the plane had actually been out of annual for over a year.  Anyway, I also had a pre-buy inspection completed by Ron Fisher (who Mr. Zephro recommended).  I doubt this guy even looked at the plane.  When I arrived to look at the plane, I saw the left aileron was dented and dinged.  The left elevator was also damaged ("hangar rash" according to Fisher).  However, I had already put a down payment on the plane and since Ron Fisher had said it was airworthy, I felt obliged to proceed.

On the way home, I started to learn of my mistake.  With regard to the avionics, one of the KX170B's did not work, and was actually not even hooked up to the indicator, which I learned when I was flying it home to Oregon.  When I had the annual completed the following year by Tom at Reliant Aviation, he determined it was not airworthy.  Ater repairing the damage to control surfaces, Tom also found that the plane had suffered a tail strike such that the entire tail assembly needed work.  All-in-all, I was out some $15K in repairs.

Now, I don't know anything about All American Aircraft, but if they are anything like Rich Zephro (who again, did business in the same town), I would stay clear of them.  And, for Ron Fisher, this guy should have his A&P license revoked.  Absolutely do not buy anything this guy has looked at and stay away from anyone who recommends him.  Buyer beware!

MT,that all happened 14 years ago,Mr Zephro is not around to tell his side of story and the mechanic who said it was airworthy was correct because it got you home safely from Texas.Calling a dead man a total crook invokes the glasshouse rule.Besides in 2002 you were buying a 38 yr old airplane.Didnt it occur to you that there may be issues?Whould you be posting so negatively if you had purchased a 38 yr old car?Hope you many happy experiences with your old Mooney and you are luckier with your new one..k

[Bravoman]

 There has been much discussion over various portions of this board on purchasing aircraft, prepurchase inspections, people getting burned, etc. To me it is always been simple. I don't care who is selling me the airplane, or what their reputation is in the community. At best,  they want to sell an airplane, and they have seller's bias.  I feel that I am best protected and know what I am getting if I take the aircraft to a mechanic that I trust who has nothing whatsoever  to do with the aircraft or seller.  I  don't do what is commonly referred to as a prepurchase inspection, I always do a full annual.  I only do that after the plane has passed my gut test and after I have seen it myself to be pretty darn sure that it will pass muster.  That technique has always worked for me, and I have never got burned with any major surprises. 

 

Regards, Frank

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, MTodd said:

Now, I don't know anything about All American Aircraft, but if they are anything like Rich Zephro (who again, did business in the same town), I would stay clear of them.

This may actually qualify as the stupidest statement I have ever read on MooneySpace. 

[jetdriven]

nah, its "fuel is cheaper than cylinders"

[M20F]

4 hours ago, MTodd said:

Now, I don't know anything about All American Aircraft, but if they are anything like Rich Zephro (who again, did business in the same town), I would stay clear of them.  

You don't know anything about them but you feel the need to advise people to stay away from them?  

I bought my F from All American in 2010.  They covered almost 5 figures worth of airworthy items in a Maxwell annual/prebuy.  Jimmy sold me a 50hr Scimitar prop hung for $5K because the existing prop had the AD and about 2000hrs on it.  It ended up needing a new spinner and back plate which cost him if memory serves almost $4K and he had overnight'ed from the factory as I had traveled down as the need got noticed by Don while I was in transit (the plane it came off of was an F but not one with a SWTA cowling so the existing spinner/plate wouldn't fit mine).  I can't think of many people who would stick by the word "hung" like Jimmy did and he made it right.

If you look at the OP on this thread, Jimmy kicked in 50% for a problem which quite honestly I fail to see how it is remotely his problem.

Dave + Jimmy = good guys in my book and I really felt they stood by their word with me.  I recommend them to everyone and if I ever happen to decide to find a new plane, they are going to be the guys who do it.  The first thing they said to me was get a PPI (not that I wasn't already planning on it), I never felt like they were trying to push anything off on me and wanted to be certain I felt I got what I paid for.  I did.

[MyNameIsNobody]

5 hours ago, MTodd said:

I just across this thread, so I apologize for the late reply.  However, I am once again in the market for a Mooney, so I just felt I had to respond.  My story is as follows:  way back in 2002, I bought a 1964 Mooney M20E from a total crook in San Antonia named Rich Zephro (now dead).  He completely lied about the plane, and I came to find out later actually made a false annual entry in the logbook, since the plane had actually been out of annual for over a year.  Anyway, I also had a pre-buy inspection completed by Ron Fisher (who Mr. Zephro recommended).  I doubt this guy even looked at the plane.  When I arrived to look at the plane, I saw the left aileron was dented and dinged.  The left elevator was also damaged ("hangar rash" according to Fisher).  However, I had already put a down payment on the plane and since Ron Fisher had said it was airworthy, I felt obliged to proceed.

On the way home, I started to learn of my mistake.  With regard to the avionics, one of the KX170B's did not work, and was actually not even hooked up to the indicator, which I learned when I was flying it home to Oregon.  When I had the annual completed the following year by Tom at Reliant Aviation, he determined it was not airworthy.  Ater repairing the damage to control surfaces, Tom also found that the plane had suffered a tail strike such that the entire tail assembly needed work.  All-in-all, I was out some $15K in repairs.

Now, I don't know anything about All American Aircraft, but if they are anything like Rich Zephro (who again, did business in the same town), I would stay clear of them.  And, for Ron Fisher, this guy should have his A&P license revoked.  Absolutely do not buy anything this guy has looked at and stay away from anyone who recommends him.  Buyer beware!

FAIL.

[carl]

Rocky Balboa: The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place It will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me or nobody is going to hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you're hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!

 

Ain't nobodies fault.

[C-GHIJ]

Try and remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion.  You may not like or agree with it, BUT it is there view on a situation.  I too had a bad dealing with a large broker (not AA) and no one will ever change my mind that I was lied to and would never do business or recommend them to anyone BUT I am sure that there are people out there that have used them and are total happy.  I take everything I read, good and bad with a grain of salt.

[Andy95W]

Just now, C-GHIJ said:

Try and remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion.  You may not like or agree with it, BUT it is there view on a situation.  I too had a bad dealing with a large broker (not AA) and no one will ever change my mind that I was lied to and would never do business or recommend them to anyone BUT I am sure that there are people out there that have used them and are total happy.  I take everything I read, good and bad with a grain of salt.

But he DIDN'T have a bad dealing with All American.  He was warning people about them because they "did business out of the same town" of the guy he had a bad experience with.

[C-GHIJ]

Just now, N1395W said:

But he DIDN'T have a bad dealing with All American.  He was warning people about them because they "did business out of the same town" of the guy he had a bad experience with.

It's still HIS opinion.  He is entitled to it, you don't have to agree with it or take his advice.

[Andy95W]

14 minutes ago, C-GHIJ said:

It's still HIS opinion.  He is entitled to it, you don't have to agree with it or take his advice.

Agree every person is entitled to their own opinion, but to post an opinion based upon nothing more than proximity on a public forum that could impact a man's business and livelihood is irresponsible. 

If my next door neighbor beats his wife, would you assume that I do as well because I live next to him?  Of course not.  If you posted this opinion as fact on a public forum, could I sue for defamation? Probably.

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, MTodd said:

Now, I don't know anything about All American Aircraft, but if they are anything like Rich Zephro (who again, did business in the same town), I would stay clear of them. 

I live in San Antonio, does that make me a bad person also? Mooneys are made just 55 miles from here, does that make them bad airplanes? Jimmy Garrison is as straight of a shooter as they come. You might not like his answer but it's a straight answer. I've met many Mooney owners who bought their airplanes from him and I've never personally heard one say they were dissatisfied. That's pretty good. With that reputation I would definitely give him the benefit of the doubt.

Edited February 10, 2016 by LANCECASPER

[StinkBug]

Seems to me this whole discussion is all based on something that AA didn't even have any part of, aside from pointing towards a shop. People call me all the time looking for work to be done, and when I tell them I'm busy, or can't do what they want they almost always ask me if I know who can do it. If I give them a name and that shop screws something up that's not my fault. Do you get pissed off at google for giving you the name of a business when you search for something? I think not.

The fact that Jimmy even offered anything shows an amazing level of customer service in my book. 

[M20F]

2 hours ago, N1395W said:

Agree every person is entitled to their own opinion, but to post an opinion based upon nothing more than proximity on a public forum that could impact a man's business and livelihood is irresponsible. 

If my next door neighbor beats his wife, would you assume that I do as well because I live next to him?  Of course not.  If you posted this opinion as fact on a public forum, could I sue for defamation? Probably.

So Andy you want to tell us when you stopped beating your wife?

[MyNameIsNobody]

3 hours ago, C-GHIJ said:

Try and remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion.  You may not like or agree with it, BUT it is there view on a situation.  I too had a bad dealing with a large broker (not AA) and no one will ever change my mind that I was lied to and would never do business or recommend them to anyone BUT I am sure that there are people out there that have used them and are total happy.  I take everything I read, good and bad with a grain of salt.

I don't like your opinion of his having a "right" to his one posting slam on a reputable shop by sketchy geographic association.  His opinion smells of unwiped anus.  Of course that is my "opinion" which I have a "right to" so take it with a grain of salt.

A lady at a Trump rally had a word for Teddy C., at a recent rally, that was another word for cat.  Also applies to original poster...again in my "salty" opinion...

I do however have a positive opinion of Japanese toilets after watch Sunday Morning on CBS.  No need to wipe with them.  They are still suitable for swirly's.  Perhaps original poster could use one.  I know I could.  A Jap toilet, NOT a swirly.

There.  Now the thread has been taken into the toilet and may be locked.

[MyNameIsNobody]

3 hours ago, C-GHIJ said:

It's still HIS opinion.  He is entitled to it, you don't have to agree with it or take his advice.

I will just refer others to your post in the future...

[C-GHIJ]

25 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

I will just refer others to your post in the future...

I find it amazing how fast people here judge and criticize other people when they don't agree with what they wrote.  One of your constitutional rights that you are so proud of is Freedom of Speech.  I never said I agree'd with the post or that it was right, only that he was entitled to his opinion..  Get off your high horse

[Hector]

FIRE!!

[M20F]

15 minutes ago, C-GHIJ said:

I find it amazing how fast people here judge and criticize other people when they don't agree with what they wrote.  One of your constitutional rights that you are so proud of is Freedom of Speech.  I never said I agree'd with the post or that it was right, only that he was entitled to his opinion..  Get off your high horse

I certainly agree there is a lot of judgement and criticism on the internet based on hearsay and mob mentality (a couple of threads  the past few days here show that), and that I think is a bad thing.  But when somebody comes and says I don't know anything about this, don't know the parties involved, don't really know anything but I think on the basis of nothing C-GHIJ is a piece of shit than the responsible thing is to stand up against such comments.  That isn't denying an opinion, that is just being a decent person.

I would add that as far as I can ascertain the US is the only country in the world where almost total freedom of speech is a guarantee, and I am very rightfully thankful that we have the right to be as idiotic or as brilliant as we want to be.  American's take as you say great pride in our  freedom of speech, but we also know the responsibility to denigrate those who would seek to abuse that freedom through our own use of words; not through the use of laws or rules.

[Marauder]

25 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said: I will just refer others to your post in the future...

I find it amazing how fast people here judge and criticize other people when they don't agree with what they wrote.  One of your constitutional rights that you are so proud of is Freedom of Speech.  I never said I agree'd with the post or that it was right, only that he was entitled to his opinion..  Get off your high horse

Someone say get off the fat horse?

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