Reporting: Accident or Incident - Be careful!

[fantom]

Many pilots are surprised to learn that there is no requirement to call the FAA following an accident or incident. The relevant reporting rules are contained in 49 CFR Part 830 and they specify what needs to be reported to the NTSB, not the FAA. And certainly, not every mishap qualifies for a report. Making an unnecessary report to the FAA or NTSB may produce unwanted scrutiny. 

Let’s say you inadvertently land gear-up at an airport without an operating control tower and the damage is limited to a prop strike and skin damage. What’s next? Do you need to call the FAA or the NTSB? The answers are "no" and "probably not." As established in Part 830 only aircraft accidents and certain serious incidents require reporting. The term “aircraft accident” is specifically defined in this part of the regulations and basically hinges on the existence of death, serious injury, or substantial damage to the aircraft. Part 830 also defines “serious injury” and “substantial damage." 

It’s notable that gear-up landings do not typically result in serious injury or substantial damage and, therefore, are not considered accidents for purposes of reporting them to anyone other than your insurance company. Unless the FAA learns of the occurrence through another source, you’re left with a busted airplane and a bruised ego, but you avoid having to explain yourself to the FAA.

On the other hand, if you land gear-up at an airport with an operating control tower or your local FAA inspector observes the mishap, what then? You can be assured that the FAA will want to talk to you. If the FAA inspector concludes that you simply failed to lower the gear (absent a mechanical malfunction), you can expect that the FAA will question your competency and require reexamination, otherwise known as a 709 ride.

It’s recommend that you thoroughly review and understand Part 830.  If you are involved in an accident or serious incident you are obliged to contact the NTSB. Calling the FAA or even the NTSB unnecessarily, however, will likely expose you to an investigation that can lead to FAA action.

 

[Seth]

Good to know!!  Thank you for this information.-Seth

[John Pleisse]

This is how I felt about 830 when I got to know it, but as you suggest, it is more timely than ever. Why is this not requisite for PP, but instead, not introduced until commercial?

[RocketAviator]

 

Many pilots are surprised to learn that there is no requirement to call the FAA following an accident or incident. The relevant reporting rules are contained in 49 CFR Part 830 and they specify what needs to be reported to the NTSB, not the FAA. And certainly, not every mishap qualifies for a report. Making an unnecessary report to the FAA or NTSB may produce unwanted scrutiny. 

Let’s say you inadvertently land gear-up at an airport without an operating control tower and the damage is limited to a prop strike and skin damage. What’s next? Do you need to call the FAA or the NTSB? The answers are "no" and "probably not." As established in Part 830 only aircraft accidents and certain serious incidents require reporting. The term “aircraft accident” is specifically defined in this part of the regulations and basically hinges on the existence of death, serious injury, or substantial damage to the aircraft. Part 830 also defines “serious injury” and “substantial damage." 

It’s notable that gear-up landings do not typically result in serious injury or substantial damage and, therefore, are not considered accidents for purposes of reporting them to anyone other than your insurance company. Unless the FAA learns of the occurrence through another source, you’re left with a busted airplane and a bruised ego, but you avoid having to explain yourself to the FAA.

On the other hand, if you land gear-up at an airport with an operating control tower or your local FAA inspector observes the mishap, what then? You can be assured that the FAA will want to talk to you. If the FAA inspector concludes that you simply failed to lower the gear (absent a mechanical malfunction), you can expect that the FAA will question your competency and require reexamination, otherwise known as a 709 ride.

It’s recommend that you thoroughly review and understand Part 830.  If you are involved in an accident or serious incident you are obliged to contact the NTSB. Calling the FAA or even the NTSB unnecessarily, however, will likely expose you to an investigation that can lead to FAA action.

 

I learned this the hard way but was told and shown the regulations by the FAA inspector himself that I did not necessarily need to report the gear up landing (however the local city airport manager said he had to if I did not....) but the FAA inspector said I did have to report it to the NTSB...!

 

Another blessing I had was that I filled out the required FAA & NTSB paperwork and the FAA person came and inspected my plane and I was interviewed by the same FAA person.  He stated that he felt that I had learned my lesson and that he needed to get a finial OK from his supervisor but if I did not hear anymore then the interview was all that would be required, however if his supervisor determined I might need to have some recurrency training ie 709...  The incident was on June 1 of this year so far I have heard nothing and I am told that there is a limited time they have to reply.  In any case I told the truth did not elaborate, did not hold anything back just the facts and treated him and his office as I would hope to be treated if I were on his side of the fence.

Oh and I was with a CFI training an emergency simulated engine fire decent to land maneuver at the time of the incident!!

I count my blessings no more has come of it, but I GUARANTEE I have learned a lesson I don't think I will ever forget....  Oh and by the way on my own I elected to take additional CFI training when I got back in the Mooney!!!

However to your point, it is indeed very wise and I highly recommend everyone know the rules, obligations and their rights as a pilot.  I was lucky at a minimum, I also did retain legal counsel, just in case whom coincidentally was a fellow Mooniac (that was well worth it for sure), I wont discuss or divulge his name on this forum so please don't ask.

Fly Safe,

[Rhumbline]

Oh and I was with a CFI training an emergency simulated engine fire decent to land maneuver at the time of the incident!!

 

If you were receiving dual at the time, the instructor was high ticket on board and is probably still sweating.  Truly, however, the timely submission of a NASA form never hurts.

[aaronk25]

.....if you call or someone calls to issue a temporary notam to close the runway the FAA inspector will start a investigation. If you can get it off the runway quick don't close it.

[Jamie]

This is awesome. Just like the Medical situation, current legal environment puts pilots in an adversarial role with the FAA, reducing safety.

 

Gear up landings, especially, do not seem to benefit from additional training. It's not that the pilot didn't know.... "Gee? You mean I have to put the gear down every time?"

 

This is also, imho, how the current cost of aviation stuff in general decreases safety. Why do I not have a little radar thingy on the belly that senses the ground and gives me a gear warning... or just drops the gear? Why do I have this manifold pressure hack instead?

[jetdriven]

Here is the list of reportable incidents and acidents:

 

§830.5   Immediate notification.

The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office1 when:

1NTSB regional offices are located in the following cities: Anchorage, Alaska; Atlanta, Georgia; West Chicago, Illinois; Denver, Colorado; Arlington, Texas; Gardena (Los Angeles), California; Miami, Florida; Seattle, Washington; and Ashburn, Virginia. In addition, NTSB headquarters is located at 490 L'Enfant Plaza, SW., Washington, DC 20594. Contact information for these offices is available at http://www.ntsb.gov.

(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed serious incidents occur:

(1) Flight control system malfunction or failure;

(2) Inability of any required flight crewmember to perform normal flight duties as a result of injury or illness;

(3) Failure of any internal turbine engine component that results in the escape of debris other than out the exhaust path;

(4) In-flight fire;

(5) Aircraft collision in flight;

(6) Damage to property, other than the aircraft, estimated to exceed $25,000 for repair (including materials and labor) or fair market value in the event of total loss, whichever is less.

(7) For large multiengine aircraft (more than 12,500 pounds maximum certificated takeoff weight):

(i) In-flight failure of electrical systems which requires the sustained use of an emergency bus powered by a back-up source such as a battery, auxiliary power unit, or air-driven generator to retain flight control or essential instruments;

(ii) In-flight failure of hydraulic systems that results in sustained reliance on the sole remaining hydraulic or mechanical system for movement of flight control surfaces;

(iii) Sustained loss of the power or thrust produced by two or more engines; and

(iv) An evacuation of an aircraft in which an emergency egress system is utilized.

(8) Release of all or a portion of a propeller blade from an aircraft, excluding release caused solely by ground contact;

(9) A complete loss of information, excluding flickering, from more than 50 percent of an aircraft's cockpit displays known as:

(i) Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS) displays;

(ii) Engine Indication and Crew Alerting System (EICAS) displays;

(iii) Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitor (ECAM) displays; or

(iv) Other displays of this type, which generally include a primary flight display (PFD), primary navigation display (PND), and other integrated displays;

(10) Airborne Collision and Avoidance System (ACAS) resolution advisories issued either:

(i) When an aircraft is being operated on an instrument flight rules flight plan and compliance with the advisory is necessary to avert a substantial risk of collision between two or more aircraft; or

(ii) To an aircraft operating in class A airspace.

(11) Damage to helicopter tail or main rotor blades, including ground damage, that requires major repair or replacement of the blade(s);

(12) Any event in which an operator, when operating an airplane as an air carrier at a public-use airport on land:

(i) Lands or departs on a taxiway, incorrect runway, or other area not designed as a runway; or

(ii) Experiences a runway incursion that requires the operator or the crew of another aircraft or vehicle to take immediate corrective action to avoid a collision.

( An aircraft is overdue and is believed to have been involved in an accident.

[53 FR 36982, Sept. 23, 1988, as amended at 60 FR 40113, Aug. 7, 1995; 75 FR 927, Jan. 7, 2010; 75 FR 35330, June 22, 2010]

[scottfromiowa]

I learned this the hard way but was told and shown the regulations by the FAA inspector himself that I did not necessarily need to report the gear up landing (however the local city airport manager said he had to if I did not....) but the FAA inspector said I did have to report it to the NTSB...!

 

Another blessing I had was that I filled out the required FAA & NTSB paperwork and the FAA person came and inspected my plane and I was interviewed by the same FAA person.  He stated that he felt that I had learned my lesson and that he needed to get a finial OK from his supervisor but if I did not hear anymore then the interview was all that would be required, however if his supervisor determined I might need to have some recurrency training ie 709...  The incident was on June 1 of this year so far I have heard nothing and I am told that there is a limited time they have to reply.  In any case I told the truth did not elaborate, did not hold anything back just the facts and treated him and his office as I would hope to be treated if I were on his side of the fence.

Oh and I was with a CFI training an emergency simulated engine fire decent to land maneuver at the time of the incident!!

I count my blessings no more has come of it, but I GUARANTEE I have learned a lesson I don't think I will ever forget....  Oh and by the way on my own I elected to take additional CFI training when I got back in the Mooney!!!

However to your point, it is indeed very wise and I highly recommend everyone know the rules, obligations and their rights as a pilot.  I was lucky at a minimum, I also did retain legal counsel, just in case whom coincidentally was a fellow Mooniac (that was well worth it for sure), I wont discuss or divulge his name on this forum so please don't ask.

Fly Safe,

Similar circumstances.  Glad you have not been called out as a bad pilot for your actions...or inaction.

These incidents...not accidents occur most often (other than mechanical failure) when pilot is distracted (under instruction) or through an unusual situation that takes pilot out of his/her routine.  I had riturals..grab the J-Bar on short final, touch the gear safe green light.  These failed me.  FAA checkride was one landing with use of a checklist.  A non-event.  Instructor had to do same.  Both instructor and I had same insurance...so mine bought as it was my plane.  Insurance companies don't generally sue themselves...I will always keep the "charactor is challenged by events" in my mind as instructor literally RAN from the plane and asked me to say "I was the sole pilot in the aircraft at time of incident".

I purchased an audible gear alarm and it did announce once when the bar was not locked all the way in.  Re-inforced need to continue to touch gear light and grab J-bar on short final...I like the audible alarm as it tells you your landing right with a "STALL-STALL" alert while in the flare.

 

Gear Up Club.  NOT a club you ever want to join.  Those that have and....

[aviatoreb]

Jamie, I do not have a “little radar thingy” either, but I do have a P2 Audio Advisory System.  It’s one of the first upgrades I did upon purchasing my J a few years ago.  Once you drop the gear and slow below 80 knots (an adjustable setting), a calm male voice comes on and says “Gear is down for landing.”  If you do not drop the gear before you slow below 80 knots, a frantic female voice excitedly proclaims “Check Gear!  Check Gear!”  The frantic warnings continue until you either drop the gear or increase the speed.  Although the purchase price of the P2 system was around $2000, it is a real bargain when compared to the consequences of a gear up landing.

 

I too purchased a P2 audio system immediately upon purchase of my Rocket almost 3 years ago.  It was sort of part of the negotiation process with my wife who was worried I would forget and I told her I could buy this device to help.  Knock on wood....

 

My CFI who gave me my BFR early this month just burst out laughing when I did the P2 audio ground test (on my pre-taxi check list).

After he stopped laughing he said that re-assuring deep male voice "GEAR IS DOWN" is Sam Elliott:

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000385/

[scottfromiowa]

The certified system I had installed was way under a grand...details on previous thread