daver328

Speed Mods ... ? Really?

180 posts in this topic

You may be correct, but my thinking is that installing relatively in-expensive mods like brake caliper reversal, wheel well liners, LASAR type cowl mod etc. and thus removing parasite drag is an efficient way to speed up the plane and will eventually return the investment in fuel savings in the years to come ... . That's my hope anyway.

Maybe it's not logical at all like I've been making it out to be and I just want to go faster? :-)

and there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to go fast...er, darn it.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

and there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to go fast...er, darn it.

So true, but suggesting you're doing those hopefully go faster mods to save money is logic that should be saved for the wife, not us.

We know better :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am on my second M20C. The first one I put on every speed mod available and saw the greatest speed increase when I removed the ADF antenna and rigged the controls.

On my current C model, I have installed mods that have multiple benefits or are inexpensive (ie., brake reversal). I installed the flap gap seals for speed and better climb. I installed LASAR cowl closure for speed, better cooling, and looks. I installed the 201 windshield for speed, less noise, and looks. A previous owner had already done the tail mods- sure wish he had hid the ELT antenna for speed and looks.

I picked up a few knots, didn't break the bank or my marriage, and am very happy with the results.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mods or no mods, I'd ensure it's rigged properly if I were you. 10 knots is not a huge deal, but if your stock AC is under performing, it's worth it to get it straightened out; if nothing more than for safety's sake. Your plane should do it's best work between 4K and 8K.  I have a stock F with lousy paint and a "laundry line" from the tail to top of the cockpit (scheduled to be removed soon) and it will do better than 140kts at 12,500ft.  Something is not right with your bird...

 

Good information. I am curious what throttle setting and rpm you are using and at what altitude? I'd like to try the same to compare. I'm gone in Borneo for January but I would like to figure a few things out in February when I get back. I've got a couple of 530 NM trips to experiment with. Usually I use 75% or less power (by the book value)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is probably because I am nose heavy. When landing I need to trim all the way back with full flaps to do a squeaker. I am usually the only one in the bird. Even though I am underweight with full fuel and my 6' 240 lb carcass, I have short legs and sit well ahead of the c of g. Just for comparison sake, I am running at 73 to 75% power in cruise. Perhaps I'll see what I can do with a 50 lb weight in the baggage.

The other thing could be the 3 blade prop. It's nice and smooth but I have read that it penalizes you about 5 mph. The bird climbs like a space shuttle. Any views on that?

I've never found a decent weight and balance section in the owners manual. Anybody have one out there for a '67 M20F?

Sorry about so long getting back to this thread.

When I land my nose up is between the takeoff and full nose up marks. It is not near the top of the nose up. This is similar for the weight situation you describe (I have actual personal weight experiences that ranged from 205 to 295 :) ) with near full fuel (like an hour used flying locally). And this is flying over the numbers at 70KIAS or 80 MPH indicated.

My 75 with the same engine as your's will do 155 KTAS at 7500 (much to the dislike of 201er) with the same weight configurations you mention above. I have the lower cowl enclosure, flap, aileron and elevator gap seals, 201 windshield, step removed, cat whiskers, a 7 antenna, a whip antenna, a blade DME, a transponder nub antenna and 3 GPS/Aspen "button" antennae.

Two blade Hartzell on a Lycoming reman with 860 hours.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good information. I am curious what throttle setting and rpm you are using and at what altitude? I'd like to try the same to compare. I'm gone in Borneo for January but I would like to figure a few things out in February when I get back. I've got a couple of 530 NM trips to experiment with. Usually I use 75% or less power (by the book value)

In my F at altitude, I am typically running full throttle and 2500 RPM. I am not above 75% power at altitude.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update: Well, I am really disappointed in the prop shop ... They are fairly "local" and came to our little airport on December 2nd to pick up the prop for a rebuild and hub modification (remove AD). Their rates are IMHO on the higher end and so I was expecting top notch service.

Here's the deal: I made the horrible mistake of telling them I only flew the plane for recreation and I wasn't in a hurry for the prop.

I was only trying to be an understanding customer who recognized that many folks take extended time away during the holidays, and I didn't REASONABLY expect the prop back in December.

I called the shop the week after New Years to check and was told they had it apart, but the person who needed to inspect it was off until the following week.

After not hearing anything for another couple weeks, I called again this week ... only to find out that they were not even working on my prop and were thinking to continually put other jobs in front of mine, because I said I didn't need it right away!

So when I said it was time to get it done, and asked when can you have it ready? The answer was an indirect, "when do you need it?" Well ... how about YESTERDAY!!! After discussing this with my mechanic, he reluctantly shared a similar experience with this shop.

Never again will I tell anyone I am not in a hurry for a job to be done! And I'll have to think twice before I send my work to this shop again!

So ... still can't fly the bird to see if gaps seals and hinge covers have made an improvement!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depending on how bad the prop was, you may see some performance from it also. I used to have an ultralight and was surprised at how much difference a few bugs splattered on the prop would make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jim!

One further note: We are holding off on the wing, elevator and dorsal fairings until we can come up with a better paint match!

That is my job now! Hope to accomplish that this Friday.

The first paint match on the seals and hinges just wasn't close enough, (white is evidently hard to match) ... and my mechanic felt bad, because he spent a lot of time and effort there with limited success. I thanked him for his extra effort, because I really do appreciate folks who take pride in their work and pay attention to detail!, but told him I would do all the "leg work" for that and assume responsibility for it. I think we found the right place to match the paint now! I'll find out Friday!

Thanks to those who posted tips on riveting and positioning those elevator root fairings, as well as the idea to place a new 121.5/406 ELT antenna there. Great idea!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take an inspection panel to the nearest paint supply place, like Finishmaster. Dont settle for an eyeball color chip guess, use the real camera scanner. I have done this several times and the paint is always dead on.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take an inspection panel to the nearest paint supply place, like Finishmaster. Dont settle for an eyeball color chip guess, use the real camera scanner. I have done this several times and the paint is always dead on.

Thanks and thanks again! The place I was heading to ... was going to use color chips, but after reading your post - I found a place locally with the camera scanner ... and it's a 30 minutes closer drive! Hoorah!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also get a real polyurethane 2-part paint such as Nason. It's not very expensive, the whites are ~35$ a quart and the reducer amd catalyst is about that much as well. But it's much more durable than a paint without catalyst or a hardener. Load it into a Harbor Freight HVLP spray him at 30-35 PSI it's as easy to spray as a can as Krylon.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Byron, I'm about ready to do the Dorsal tail mod along with the two side pieces that cover up the h-stab intersection. Purchased over a year ago and finally ready. Any chance you could post lessons learned or any other tips? The rivets were a good idea, I'm familiar with them, cool rivets! I am planning to install Emerging life savings technologies blade ELT under the fairing. I have a few holes to patch from some old antennas too. Emerging tech was able to split up a full system and just sell me the antenna so I could do the mods with out the upfront cost of the full ELT. Then upgrade later.

Good luck with your paint job! I've been watching the quality that comes out of paint shops... Please let us know.

Best,

-Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update: 01/31/2014

I know it's not one of the speed mods but we got the M20 Oil Separator on last week.

The prop is back on ... as of yesterday.

We have what we hope will be very good paint match (thank you all for the help)! We went to a local body shop that had the camera/computer to match the paint. (The plane has newer paint - done in 2010 ... But no notes or entries in the logs regarding the correct color/codes.)

... and so as soon as the new121.5/406 ELT and antenna arrives ... the (wing/ elevator and dorsal fin) root fairings are going on! And the new ELT antenna will be inside the dorsal fin fairing!

From the list posted a few months back - That will leave us with just the brake caliper reversal and wheel well liners to install!

post-11623-0-15438000-1391217505_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The brake calipers are pretty easy to do, I done them a couple of years ago. The only problem was it pulled the brake line really tight and we had to make a new one about an inch longer. If I remember correctly I also had to order a letter sized drill bit.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also get a real polyurethane 2-part paint such as Nason. It's not very expensive, the whites are ~35$ a quart and the reducer amd catalyst is about that much as well. But it's much more durable than a paint without catalyst or a hardener. Load it into a Harbor Freight HVLP spray him at 30-35 PSI it's as easy to spray as a can as Krylon.

Yeah, that's what I did: Real paint with reducer and catalyst.

Thanks for input ... I am a new owner and not very knowledgable about paint. I think we got it right now?

The proof will be when the paint goes on ... it matches ... and wears well over time! I'll post pictures when it's done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well my M20F does 138 kts at 7500'. I've considered the Lopresti cowl and the new style windshield, but I figured out the math and for that combo I can fly 337 hours with my bird the way it is. Or about 225 hours and throw in a Garmin 530...

OK I just got home last night and took the beastie out for a ride today. At 5000' it was -13 C and the altimeter was 29.94. I was indicating 142 kts using 2500 rpm and 23 inches. That translated to 148 kts true airspeed using the E6B. I feel better now. With a new windshield mod, and the cowl enclosure, I should have a 150 kt plus airplane. No point buying another faster one because I can fly for many hours on the savings from not moving up. Just wouldn't mind a turbo. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to fly my plane today for the first time since prop strike. Feels pretty nice. New Lord Mounts. The old Barrys were about 12 years old, 700 hours. I'm breaking in a fresh engine so 1 hour of going nowhere @ 4500' Ran at 75 & 80% power. My old E was indicating between 155 and 159 k TAS all the time. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's impressive. I don't need the leg room, none of the 4 kids live at home. And our pekinese dog has short legs. Maybe I'll buy an E model :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's impressive. I don't need the leg room, none of the 4 kids live at home. And our pekinese dog has short legs. Maybe I'll buy an E model :)

In my unbiased, of course, opinion, the E is the best. (If you don't need much of a back seat.) Mine does have a lot of 201 mods and a Powerflow exhaust. And now a fresh engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of good stuff, I heard that the power flow exhaust has a recurring inspection that requires partial removal. Is that true?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The slip joints have to be lubed 100 hours / annual. Not a big deal

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose it might be a bigger deal with another airplane the lower cowl on my eat are you see to remove and that's enough to access to the tailpipes

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wing root fairings went on today ... I'll post pictures after they're all installed ...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update: after installing wing root fairings, our mechanic said he "had a couple annuals knocking on the door" that he had to get done before he could come back to the other fairings (horizontal tail root and vertical dorsal fin root) ...

So I texted him the other day to coordinate the avionics guys with the installation of the 406 ELT and a new antenna underneath the vertical dorsal fin fairing ... and low and behold ... he's away in Florida on vacation!

The avionics guy is trying to tell me that the new ELT antenna cannot go underneath the fairing because it must remain vertical?

It's this ELT and antenna: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/elt406.php

Can anyone confirm or dispute this? I am holding off until I get some more input ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now