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Hey fellow Mooniacs... I own a 231 with the merlyn waste gate, but no intercooler... I'm near overhaul time and would love to get a demo ride in a 231 with the intercooler so I can decide if it's worth the money to add at overhaul... I would be happy to pay for time and fuel even throw in one of those "hundred dollar hamburgers"...

Hi everyone, Saturday morning planned on flying to Yosemite (KMPI) for a weekend trip...got the plane loaded, IFR Clearance, and took the runway. Applied full power and instead of the usual 40"MP, it capped out about about 29". Aborted after about 200 feet, taxied back and put the bird back in the hangar and spent the next 8 hours in the car. First, i'm looking for a good mechanic in SD to come out to the plane. I'm based out of the Oceanside (KOKB) airport. Secondly, possible turbo failure? Cylinders all seemed to be operating withing normal t/o zones and the runup didn't indicate any issue with mags. So...if it is a turbo failure, any shops you guys recommend to either repair, or replace? Side note...Yosemite was incredible! Thanks, David

After being without an airplane for 9 days, I am back in the game with an M20K 252 TSE. I picked the bird up with a fresh annual from New Philadelphia, OH yesterday afternoon and flew it home to Austin, TX (KHYI) last night. While I still need to learn how to properly fly her, I'm thrilled with the purchase and enjoyed the flight home. Of course, I spend most of the flight reading the POH while the KFC150 did the flying. I've certainly got a lot to learn after 400 hours in an M20C. Here's a picture that explains how thrilling it is to be flying a 252 after flying an M20C. There are three pieces of information that explain it.

Has anyone here installed an EDM-900 in a six cylinder turbo Mooney such as an M20K? I know several have the EDM-930, but I'm interested in the EDM-900 for space issues. I'm curious if you're able to have all the data on the screen that you need for normal operations such as EGT, CHT, and TIT, simultaneously.

As I continue to get more familiar with my 1979 M20K with a TSIO-360LB-1 with TurboPlus Intercooler, Merlyn Automatic Wastegate and GAMIjectors I was wondering what practices other members use for leaning. What temperature ranges do you try to keep your engines in (EGT, CHT, TIT) and what fuel flow do you typically aim for during climb, cruise and descent? I had fuel schedule adjusted on the engine and feel that it may be running too lean as I need to keep cowl flaps in trail in cruise when running full rich in order to keep CHT for the #1 cylinder below 380 in cruise at any altitude above 8,000 feet or so. Contrary, I am finding that the #6 cylinder is typically the coolest, running at just below 300 CHT in cruise. My fuel flow is around 13.8 - 14.1 gph at 28" and 2500 RPM for cruise. Do others see the same spread? Any K tricks that you'd like to share to get the best temps, speed, and economy? Thanks everyone in advance for sharing your wisdom and advice. --Alex

Hello everyone, I'm on short final to purchase a 252 TSE and the insurance mob wants me to get 10 hrs instruction before they'll cut me loose. I've scoured the forums and have had no luck finding anyone. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions. Needless to say, I'm more than a little excited to having one of these fabulous planes. ~ David

Is any one familiar with the Service Instruction for the 231 K model cowl flap modification ? It's SI M20-68B...

Hi all, After several busy weeks I was finally able to fly last week and run a GAMI spread to diagnose the overheating issue of cylinder 1 on takeoff/climb. Not a massive overheating mind you (~390-400 deg) but still much higher than normal. Below are the screenshots from May this year (poor data rate but it gets the point across) and the one I took last week. You can see that the May spread was very good (about 0.2 gph). The one from last week however shows the cylinder 1 peak occurring roughly 1 gph higher than the rest of the cylinders; the other cylinders all look the same as before. To me this indicates a partial fuel blockage in either the injector itself or the feed line/distributor. I removed the injector before the flight (since I suspected this might be the issue) and everything looked clean and free. Reinstalled and flew the plane. Do y'all agree with my diagnosis? What other parts are susceptible to plugging? Since it's only this cylinder and total flow rates are normal on takeoff and cruise, I'd think it would be something downstream of (or in) the fuel distributor/spider. Should I send the injector back to GAMI to get it flow tested first before I do anything else? -Don

who owns it

I took my 231 up for the first time since our local mechanic replaced 3 pushrod seals in the engine. Everything was great until I went to push the cowl flaps closed. To my surprise they popped right back out to the trail position. Anyone have ideas on what the problem could be?

One final plea to the group to see if anyone may have an Aerosonic Part #651035-0107 (see photo below) combination Manifold Pressure/Fuel Flow gauge for sale before I splurge on a replacement equivalent and an expensive install. Thanks. --Alex

Been flying my new (to me) 252/Encore conversion for about 3 months now, so I'm still getting used to it in many ways. But one thing that is alarming is that I smell fuel in the cockpit rather strongly on short final sometimes. It seems to happen the most and be the strongest when I close the throttle completely if I'm coming in too high, for example. It may be the attitude (fuel moving forward in the tanks?) and not related to the throttle position, but I feel like I've noticed it more often when I've been too high (darn slippery airplane!) and cut the throttle abruptly. This is rather concerning... any ideas what is going on?

Fuel selector valve for later model Mooney. Manufactured in October 1995 by Airight, Inc. (Part No. 36100-5, Serial No. 1319). Corresponds to Mooney Part #610289-001. This part purchased new would cost over $2,000 if you can find it. See pictures below. Asking $500. Contact me at ehscott@s2management.com or call 404-512-0251. Can accept payment by Paypal.

The interior plastic on my 231 needs to be rehabbed/replaced and reattached to the body. I made an attempt to do some repair work, but it is not coming out at a quality that is acceptable. Its time to take the plunge and have some professionals work on it. Does anyone have interior shops that they have dealt with in the southeast that they would recommend?

I had Weber Aircraft install these new at 1790.1 AF hours. At 1816.7 hours we decided to do a complete engine overhaul and the build shop insisted on brand new mags. These mags have 26.6 hours on them - they didn't even get to their first timing check. $900 each. If you need a mag, and can find a better deal, you should take it. Can send pictures, but they look like brand new mags packaged in brand new Champion boxes. Nice, but not very interesting imo. Champion Slick pressurized magnetos Model 6324 Mag 1: Serial no: 13101794 Lag. 30 Rot. L Rev. E. Mag 2: Serial no: 13101795 Lag. 30 Rot. L Rev E.

This is probably one of the most rare parts I've ever encountered. I've spent almost two days calling mooney service centers including internationally, salvage places, etc. and no luck. Anyone out there that could help me out? I'm looking for an airbox boot for a Mooney M20K, the PN: 600414-001. I'm only needing one. The factory sells it for $461.89 however they're 120 days out, I'm needing to order it ASAP and obviously around that price range. Used but obviously good condition would work as well.

I have been analyzing the data from my newly installed JPI 730 and noticed that towards the end of a flight from PDK to ORL the EGTs on cylinder 2 have begun to look like a sawblade. It can jump or drop 100dF in a matter of seconds. I'm afraid this means that I have a sticking exhaust valve. Does anyone else have any suggestions to why it is doing this? This did not appear until last week. Here is a link for a shorter flight that where it is doing the same so you can see what I'm talking about: https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/487165/3ee05526-c621-4950-b2ec-e39ee45c4002 and the original flight where it started: https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/484105/a3b979b9-e24b-4b91-a889-a8e6e55d7520 What do yall think?

Thought this might spark some debate, I found this in the middle of a long thread on Beechtalk about the pros and cons of the TSIO vs TN. George Braly of Tornado Alley Turbo & GAMI fame had this to say about intercoolers. I was wondering how the 231 guys with intercoolers have anything to add, maybe someone with before and after install experience. Anyway here's what he said... For a year, I spent a good portion of my time re-engineering an intercooler installation and obtaining FAA approval for the changes. Very careful instrumentation and measurement. I have more recently done more of that with a different engine on the engine test stand (see www.engineteststand.com). I learned a lot. I am a strong supporter of intercoolers, so some of what I am going to say may sound strange at first. So, here goes: Frankly most of the conventional wisdom on this subject - - like a lot of the now famous LOP/ROP discussions - - is simply not true. The practical application results in an outcome that is rather different than everybody anticipates. It is largely a myth that 30" of MP AFTER the intercooler gets you more HP than 30" of MP BEFORE adding the intercooler. In fact, a poorly executed intercooler installation can - - and often does -- result in LESS horsepower at sea level than the same engine without the intercooler. I don't know who started the whole theory of de-rating an engine after an intercooler, but it sure as the devil was not somebody who was measuring the actual engine torque - accurately - - rather, they were just following the theory as you outlined it and making the calculations, etc. (And, yes, I have heard a story about one after market intercooler outfit that claims to have put a torque meter on before issuing the reduced MP instructions based on that result... but until I see the data, I will have a very hard time with that notion.) The big problem is that in the euphoria over the large and very beneficial drop in Induction Air Temperatures (IAT) that one gets with an intercooler, the "engineers" forget all about something else: How much of the "good stuff" (ie, good, cold, high density air) you can get into the cylinder on each intake stroke - - also depends on how much of the BAD STUFF (ie, exhaust products) you got out of the cylinder on the previous exhaust stroke. The ratio of the new "good stuff" to the theoretical maximum "good stuff" is called the cylinder volumetric efficiency Ve. Normally aspirated engine values are up around 85 to 92% of the cylinder's displacement - - although with turbocharged engines, the number will substantially exceed 100%. When you add an intercooler to a turbocharged engine - - and leave the MP constant - -, you place a restriction in the intake plumbing. That means that the compressor discharge pressure is now two or three (or 4 or 5 or 6 in one case) inches of Hg higher than the wide open throttle MP!!! In order to generate that extra pressure, the compressor has to work harder. And that means that the turbo has to work harder. And that means that the wastegate is closed a bit more. And THAT means the exhaust back pressure increases and that reduces the cylinder volumetric efficiency. Result? The improved number of molecules you get into the cylinder due to the denser air is just about perfectly offset by the reduced Ve. Thus, no net increase in useful airflow through the cylinder. And the result of that is no net increase in horsepower at the same MP. Now... having said THAT - - in my view, it is almost criminal for anybody to operate a turbocharged engine without an intercooler. There are excellent old SAE research papers that show a HUGE improvement in the detonation tolerance of these engines by use of even a modestly efficient intercooler. These improvements are not trivial. They are substantial. Installing an intercooler means that you are very very much less likely to inadvertently cause detonation during a moment of inattention during a busy high power climb in an IFR environment - - when you accidentally fail to have the mixture rich enough. Lots of other benefits. For the same reasons, it lowers peak cylinder pressures substantially and that seriously promotes reduced exhaust valve temperatures and greater valve and cylinder longevity. Last, and this is something almost nobody appreciates, adding an intercooler results in much better fuel atomization by your fuel injectors during high power operation. Like I said, the "conventional" wisdom on this subject is seriously flawed. The benefits of intercoolers are sort of over promoted for the wrong reasons and vastly under promoted for the right reasons all at the same time. They are generally a good investment. Regards, George Braly - Tornado Alley Turbo & GAMI

Wanted: M20K Encore or 252 Wish-list: FIKI TKS, G500 or Aspen PFD, WAAS capabilities, nice Engine Monitor, Flown and Well-maintained Hopefully you're for sale out there! Was going to go with the 231, and found a great plane, but I ski, bike, and load gear. Fold down/removable seats are a must. Plus, FIKI is not an option in that plane. If I can't find soon, plane partner wants to pull the trigger on a Bo.

I fly a M20K 231 with Merlyn intercooler and wastegate making it fly like a 252. We recently had an engine overhaul that caused the TIT to run considerably hotter than on our "old" engine. The "new" engine is in fact the same core, just overhauled to new specifications. The temperature probes are the same as well, so they may be inaccurate, but they should be measuring the relative temperature differences correctly. We had a Mooney Service Center set the fuel flow system at the high and low end per the Continental Service Instruction. This supposedly is very important because an out of whack setup could create many problems. At full power on takeoff (36 inches due to the intercooler), we are seeing 22 gph. That is about 2-4 gph lower than before the overhaul. In cruise (28 inches, 2500 rpm, mixture full rich) we get 15 gph, about 1 gph more than on the old engine. The really concerning thing though is that with the mixture full rich, we see TIT temperatures between 1520 and 1560. We have no ability to decrease that temperature by running significantly rich of peak. On the previous engine with what was probably a poor fuel flow setup, we could cool the TIT to less than 1480 degrees by enrichening the mixture. So my question to the community is 1) should we be concerned with flying the airplane in cruise at 1560 TIT, and 2) should we be concerned that we don't have any "mixture authority" at normal cruise conditions in case CHTs start rising or something like that. The STC that added the intercooler was approved without any change to the performance charts, so we don't know exactly what fuel flow would be expected with certain power settings. If anyone has a copy of a 252 power chart, it would be most appreciated. Thank you.

All, I am currently ready to cross over from the renters world to ownership. I was going to buy a Cessna TR182RG until I came across a beautiful Mooney on Controller. I don't know much about Mooney's, except they are efficient and fast. The Mooney that I am looking at (http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1980-MOONEY-M20K-231/1300287.htm) has a TSIO-360-GB engine. My questions are as follows: 1) Can this GB engine be converted to an LB engine? Or a MB/SB engine for that matter? 2) If it can, could I keep the intercooler, Merlyn waste gate, and GAMI injectors? 3) What do overhauls for these engine types typically cost? 4) Can you fit skis (170cm) in the M20K? 5) The owner of this Mooney guarantees 170 knots above 15,000 with a fuel burn of 9.5 to 9.8 gph. Does this sound realistic to everyone? 6) How does the deal itself look to everyone? Again, I am new to Mooney's. I was going to go with Cessna, but I am starting to shy away due to the operating costs. Thank you in advantage for your expertise and I look forward to hearing back!

The plane goes in for avionics next week and while its down I was going to get a jump on refurbishing some of the interior plastics on the plane. I had a company come out and give me a quote on repairing and redying all the plastics in the plane, which came out to about $400 more than buying all new parts from planeplastics.com. I added 20% for trimming/fitting/dying the new pieces and it still came in below the cost of having the old, disintegrating pieces repaired and redyed. Has anyone done a full interior refurbishishment using planeplastic.com parts? How difficult are they to fit and get installed. The online pictures make them look like they don't come with screw holes, oxygen cutouts etc. How hard is it to get all this cut in correctly? And is the color decent or should i plan on having them redyed upon receipt? Any insight that you all have would be greatly appreciated.

I am considering buying a 1979 Mooney M20K with a Continental TSIO-360LB-8 and an MTV-12 3-bladed propeller installed in 2003. Both the factory remanufactured engine and the prop have about 300 hours and appear to be in good shape. Does anyone have experience with this prop in a similar configuration? Thanks in advance for the feedback and advice.

I was not able to get the stall warning to sound in flight on my recently purchased 1979 M20K. The switch moves freely and operates as designed when tested on the ground. The mechanic was not sure what adjustments and additional troubleshooting could be done. Any thoughts or suggestions on what I could try? Thanks. --Alex

I'm a new member and a first time aircraft buyer. I had a look at a M20K today in CO that has me reeling. Of course I'll need a pre-buy inspection. Any recommendations? Arapaho Aero is the broker, is it wise to use their A/P for the inspection? It's due for an annual, is it unreasonable to ask for this to be done by the seller? Lastly, is Vref a reliable/accurate evaluation tool? Tim