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David and I met up this week and knocked out the details. Put a deposit on her today! The great news is David now has the time (and incentive ;o) to get the cowling to a state where I'll be able to fly it home (sometime in late August or early September). For those who are waiting for the cowling, this will help you folks as well. Very excited and David has been awesome to work with. As the plane is put back together and flying again, I'll update folks with its progress. We have a few items to knock out and she'll also have a Surefly mag to replace the left one. Can't wait! Once I get some time flying her, I'll be looking @ adding a Garmin GNC 355 GPS/COM with CDI. Because I'll be waiting on the Garmin, it will put a damper on my IFR training in 52W a bit. I'll probably add the Garmin early next year. This will give me more time to save some money, study, and get better -- maybe do some simulator training to keep my IFR training going. Sorry to those who are waiting on the new cowling, but I'm now first in line ;o) -Don

Does anyone have experience with Surefly electronic magneto replacement with a GI-275 EIS? I heard somewhere that the GI-275 EIS STC doesn't allow the Surefly. Looking through the install manual the EIS seems to support general P-lead pickups that the Surefly would provide. It's not immediately obvious to me why it would be prohibited to do a drop-in magneto replacement with Surefly.

Kinda sad data, and I have IO390 envy now. I probably wouldn't have put on that Powerflow exhaust if I'd known this innate limitation of the O-360 a few years back, and I ought to get around to setting my Surefly to fixed timing mode, despite this setup approaching stock E model performance. As a Mooney pilot, I have a hard time pulling the power back and just enjoying the efficiency dividend.

I would not install an ElectroAire EIS but the Surefly’s have proven themselves to be very reliable so far. Mags also have nylon gears but not the Surefly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

***UPDATE! 3/18/24*** The original issue down below has been resolved. Turns out my P-1000 just absolutely refused to accept the Tach2. After fighting with the airplane and working back and forth with the SureFly tech team, we got it solved. Between an oscilloscope and utilizing a multimeter to read off the Tach2, we figured it was the Horizon. I ordered an EI R1 on the spot. Installed the R1 and within an hour we were airworthy. That being said, here's some pointers for anyone who has this issue in the future and is coming to this forum like I have done with so many others. - Utilize a multimeter on the 0-5V output on the Tach2 to see if the Tach2 is outputting signal. The multimeter will get a spike, much like the oscilloscope, and tell you that the Tach2 is working. We found that the Tach2 was working and therefore that either our wiring was off between the Tach2 and the P-1000, or it was the P-1000 (it was). What we did for the longest time, until one of the bosses, Jason, at SureFly told us to, was only check that the Tach2 was getting power. We utilized the multimeter on the Tach2 power channels, not the output channels. Had we run this simple test (while the engine was running) weeks before, we would have confirmed it was the P-1000 causing issues. - Call SureFly with any issues. They're extremely helpful and always answer the phone during business hours. Their online troubleshooting guides leave something to be desired, but their willingness to help over the phone is awesome. PIREP!! Flying PIREP so far. Noticing lower fuel burn by about ~0.5 gal/hr. We just did a left side SureFly. Start up is BEAUTIFUL. I had a shower of sparks and we removed it. Now she cranks over in two or three turns. Nothing else like it! Please feel free to ask me any other questions! -------------------------- Hello! My A&P and I have been spending the past few weekends replacing our left magneto with a SureFly. From SureFly's recommendation due to the Horizon P-1000 we have, we purchased the Tach 2 as well as the Maggie Ignition Harness. We chose to go with fixed timing due to a C model with the carburetor as well as directly wired from the battery to the magneto. When we started up - it ran beautifully. However, the P-1000 was showing a "Left Magneto Signal Status Indicator. Turns on with the Loss of Signal from the Left Magneto. Flashes when the Left Internal Tachometer is Disabled." (we were flashing red) Has anyone run into this issue? We double verified that the Tach2 was getting power and verified the wiring was correct. Curious if we need to somehow reprogram the P-1000 due to the electronic magneto? We weren't able to see anyone with the same issue on MooneySpace from a preliminary search and we know plenty of folks out there have the P-1000 and SureFly. Thanks!

+1, SureFly's installation instructions say to either remove the starting vibrator for the SoS and/or cap off the retard lead in the mag (thereby bypassing the shower of sparks anyways)

Didn't they remove the shower of sparks when they installed the surefly, thought that was one of the primary reasons, along with not having the reoccurring 500hr inspection, for getting the surefly? Thanks

fellow M20E owner here, My plan is to just put in the ElectroAire switch : Electroair EA-15000 Ignition Switch Panels - STC | Aircraft Spruce Installed the Surefly Electronic with variable timing ignition years ago, absolutely one of my best plane purchases. Only problems i've ever heard of was something about 28v systems and an out of range voltage drop on start;, not applicable to us M20E guys. yes it works with shower of sparks, heck, it'll start the plane without the shower of sparks.

What’s wrong with your switch? Recurring inspections? To comply with the AD you simply set the engine at idle and turn it off with the key. If it kills the engine, it is airworthy. I’m not going to try to talk you out of buying an emag if that’s what you want to do. The Surefly will replace your left mag. It operates at TDC below 400 rpm to facilitate starts. The starter vibrator (shower of sparks) can be removed with that setup as you will no longer be using a mag with a retard breaker.

How would this compare to an electronic ignition like Surefly? I have heard the startups with those are 1-2 blade turns even when hot. If you're looking for a better startup that may be a better direction to look?

Which mag (Left or Right) needs to be replaced when swapping to SureFly electronic Mag

Has anyone fitted Surefly on the Acclaim/TSIO 550 G? If so, where can we buy the harness? Our A&P had asked about having one made but was told that they cannot make for export (to Australia).

The Lycoming EIS is fixed timing only. Did you set your Surefly for variable timing? That would account for the DIP switch differences. You can check with the experimental sites about how they set their plug gaps. The last time I talked to Surefly about it, they had some legal concerns about recommending wider gaps on certified airplanes. A wider gap would allow the voltage to build higher and result in a stronger spark which might improve combustion efficiency slightly. But, probably not by much. If it runs well, I wouldn’t mess with it. If you do decide to widen the gaps, be very careful not to put any side load on the center electrode. It is very easy to stress the center insulator, and if it breaks later you can get a preignition event that will destroy a cylinder if you don’t catch it and reduce power quickly enough.

Ahh, yes .032. I just had a surefly fail its internal lighting/timing test during an annual. It was supplied with a new lycoming PN. Lycoming rebrands the surefly with their own label and then seals the dipswitch plug with some serious thread lock. There were not in stock at Lycoming. Ordered a new one from Lycoming. They sent the wrong dash number. Ran like crap. Ended up ordering a new surefly from Spruce and setting the correct dip switch. Funny thing is the surefly and the lycoming(surefly) had different dip switch settings. Nice people still at surefly but they are legally bound not to release info on the lycoming line. -Matt

Interesting. The last time that I asked this question to the SureFly guys at Sun N Fun or Oshkosh they said that even though the SIM could handle a wider gap, the plugs should still only be gapped to the mag spec. But when I looked at the current SureFly installation manual, it says up to .035. Third page: f0684a_5c901873262249e59c4cb300f0fc8bbb.pdf (surefly.net) My Slicks only have about 350 hours on them. I was going to wait until they hit around 500 to change over to SureFly. So I haven't really been following the latest SureFly news. Has recommending a .022 to .035 sparkplug gap been a fairly new change? Thanks John

The surefly manual states the required gap. It’s much larger than a normal mag. I personally love the BY plugs. .040 if I recall. Many techs might miss this during inspection or service. I did until I read it. -Matt

I'm just curious Skip. Just hypothetically, what do you think the optimum gap would be for UREM37BY plugs running on SureFly? Again, just hypothetically of course. Say, you were running an IO-360-A3B6 in an RV-7 with a SureFly ignition system. John

Browser search for SureFly installation on M20M TSIO-540 has no hits. Has anybody had one installed on a Bravo wet head?

Alright Mooney friends need help. Just had a new rebuild from Western Airways put in my '66 M20E. I had a lot done and more money than I ever expected. New prop etc. Also had a SureFly installed. The engine will start immediately when it is completely cold. If I run it even ten minutes or more and then try to start it will not take. With my other engine I had no problem learning a sequence that let me start it no matter how hot it was. I tried every veriable I can and the only one the works is to completely flood the engine and then crank the hell out of it with no mixture and full throttle and I'm going to ruin my Sky-Tech. Any input. Could the timing be off or what? Wrong plugs? Thanks in advance. Dick

If it starts using the the flood procedure, then it is making spark. That does not mean it is making spark at the right time. You can check idle mixture next time you shut it down by leaning slowly idle rpm. You should see a rise of 25-50RPM as the mixture hits best power on the way to idle cut off. I think this is likely ignition related and would focus on the starting mag (Surefly).

I would contact SureFly.

I didn’t have room for the rocker switch ignition panel, so I installed two DPDT mil-spec toggle switches. I put them on top of the radio stack, where nothing else fits. I moved the ship’s Master switch and the ELT panel there, too. I adopted a mag switch schematic I found on a RV’r website. Both mag switches in the ‘up’ position grounds the right mag and energizes the starter solenoid. The left mag (SureFly) is hot. When the engine starts release the switches, they’re spring loaded back to ‘center’ and both mags are hot. Inflight mag checks are a piece of cake. No more after-fire from not moving the key quickly enough with SureFly latency on the left mag. Shut down is normal… pull the mixture, when the engine stops both switches in the ‘down’ position grounds both mags. After shutdown, I do have to double/triple check that the mags are cold, both switches down. But, there’s virtually no chance of inadvertent starter actuation because both toggle switches have to be ‘up’ to complete the starter circuit.

I have one installed in '67C a couple of things that bothers me, is start button has no real guard around it. so if you bump the start switch or if a unsupervised/curious person decides to press the red button, because everybody like pressing the red button, especially the red button you are not supposed to press it will turn over the prop. I pull the ignition CB to prevent this. The rocker switches are kind of cheesy and could have deeper guard around them to protect inadvertently bumping the mag switch(es). The other thing is with SureFly ignition installed, the engine runs so smooth on my left magneto it is real easy to start the engine and then taxi forgetting to turn on my right magneto. What is great about the EI CGR30C/P engine monitor has indication above RPM/Tach showing me when the magneto is off. If you have two magneto installed they don't provided you the wring diagram to incorporate the shower of sparks (starter vibrator) circuitry. When going from the Bendix ignition key switch push to start switch to the two rocker switches push to start switch. I have had it installed for about 4 plus years no problems, it works great. Just my observations. James

I'm planning the same, partly due to having a surefly, mostly because it looks cooler

Hi all, I’ve got a bad wire, and figure it makes sense to replace both harnesses as they’re the same age. It seems like the Maggie harness is popular, but not clear why it over the Slick. Are Maggie priced better, better quality, or both? Also can’t seem to find any Maggie pricing. I’d call but they’re close til Monday. What they go for compared to Slick? It’s an ‘87 J, IO-360 A3B6 (one slick mag and one Surefly, but both use the slick harness). Thanks, and happy Saturday all! (Ps, I have searched and read the threads I could find, just no answers for these questions).