Shadrach

$8000 for a case? Call any one of the many crankcase overhaulers in Tulsa, I am sure that several of them have an overhauled unit in stock. Moreover, and I mean no offense, unless you're in the business of repairing and overhauling aircraft crankcases, your opinion of the repairability of this case is worth about the same or less than what we are all paying.

You won't know until it's opened. If Lyc will take it on trade, then you have some serious thinking to do. If they won't, the decision to split the case has been made and you won't know what you have until you see it.

Many of the pilot's I know in person and on-line would not have the confidence to admit to a fuel starvation incident such as yours. I appreciate your candor and I'm so glad that you aren't Cirrus owner with an itchy trigger finger!

Seems to me a seized valve would likely bend a pushrod before doing that to the case. I look forward to learning what's inside the case. Metal in the screen is not necessarily a complete right off, but it certainly isn't good news. I doubt Lycoming will take this engine back in trade.

I'm pissing in the wind here. Clearly C&D would result in nearly 100 fatal rate. The rub is A and B. You clearly seem believe option A is always superior, I can envision situations where it is not. You also left out "controlled and above stall speed" which I think happens more often than we think. I would like to believe that faced with the option risking: A] killing myself B] killing ground dwellers C] killing myself and ground dwellers. I would choose A. The time is coming when someone pulls because of poor judgement and kills someone on the ground. It won't happen often, but it will happen. I'm not sure, I'd want to survive if I pancaked on to someone on the ground.

We don't know about the risks to folks on the ground. Only a small number of the total aircraft flying are equipped with chutes and only a small portion of those have pulled. Do you some how think that a 1.5 ton aircraft descending out of control at nearly 20mph straight down poses no risks to those on the ground? There are several reasons that Cirrus did not build a retract, one of which is that it's likely that the injury prognosis for passengers under the canopy is not so great without the gear to act as a crush zone. In most cases a chute merely trades controlled horizontal velocity for uncontrolled vertical velocity at a lower rate. The latter can be managed into a gradual deceleration away from the public, the former is an uncontrolled descent to what almost always ends with a sudden stop. If you think that the best decision is always to opt for uncontrolled verticals descent, then I think that you are small minded and for the sake of folks on the ground, I am thankful that the air is not full of guy like you in airplanes that are one handle pull away from an uncortrolled vertical descent. Your benighted statistical analysis has not swayed me. I do believe that the chute emboldens pilots to do things they shouldn't ought to do. I believe that is reflected in the fact that the cirrus family of aircraft had an abysmal fatal accident rate per 100,000 hrs flown in its first 10 years in existence. Can someone please post the accident stats by manufacture per 100,000 hrs flown?

Bravoman, That is one funky case crack! I went through the same thing in 2010 albeit with a 4cyl. It had 880SMOH at the time. I elected to IRAN. Most of my engine internals looked perfect. We had all the cyl IRAN'd, the case was OH'd by crankcase services in Tulsa ($800). Total bill was $4500, but I R&R'd the engine under supervision. If the case is repairable, you could likely be back in the air for around 10K with a firm understanding of the condition of your engine. Lots of people will tell you that you need a new engine. I think that's a rediculous idea. Don't get lulled into to believing that spending money = safety. Spending money wisely = safety...and value.

I do, but as Dev so eloquently stated earlier, safety innovations often inspire folks to take risks they would otherwise avoid. I am not suggesting that we don't have all manner of jackassery in GA across all makes and models, only that it's hard to get excited when some fool on a cross country flight passes up multiple opportunities to refuel and parachutes tanks dry into someone's back yard. If a brand B, C, P etc ran out of grass and landed in a field, I'd feel the same way. My feelings could be summed up in one phrase - "I'm glad you survived, dip shit"... However, pulling a chute does not even allow for the modest redemption of executing a decent dead stick landing.

The initial boiling point of Avgas is 25-170C or 77-338F. The number changes temp and pressure. Vapor lock is real. It may not be a huge risk in a 4cyl Mooney, but it happens.

Sure, but the reality is that it has always been Cirrus compared to everything else in its class. I think it's great that straight leg birds are getting such great speed and efficiency. However, I like flying a retract...even a bird has sense enough to pull its legs up after takeoff.

The shroud is factory equipment and it serves 2 purposes: 1) it circulates fresh air around the pump which helps to keep the fuel in its intended state... a liquid. 2) it acts as a collector if a fuel pump seal fails confining the leak to the inside of the shroud which has an overflow that is piped (hosed?) to a devoted drain tube on the bottom of the cowl. I just replaced the AN elbow that comes of the shroud at annual and yes it is a PITA to get to. I did not have to tilt the engine forward into the service position, but it is really not that big of a deal if needed.

Cirrus makes a great airplane, but I'm not in love with the fuel tank design...or lack there of.

FIFY. Gear up landings are not unique to Mooneys. This thread is really degenerating. I will be the first to say that I am glad that chutes help save pilots no matter the circumstances. Every time a retract accidentally lands gear up the pilot is faced with the cost of engine rebuild and the embarrassment of his fellow airman learning that he bent his airplane. Every time a Cirrus pulls a chute, it makes the news; it's another opportunity for State and Fed lawmakers to have reason to "take action"... for non-aviation folks to complain about "little airplanes"... for land developers who want airport land to exploit the situation. I still think chutes are a great idea. I just wish chute pulling pilots did a better job of confining their chute pulling needs to things that didn't display overtly poor judgement...

Rear view with hose disconnected from baffle wall.

As was previously said it is the cooling feed for a SCAT tube that ducts to the mechanical fuel pump housing. It would be a good idea to replace it. This time of year it's not a huge deal, but in August...

If you remove the chute saves (assuming the DB in the AC thought he was going to Die and gave up) and replace them with fatals aper 100,000 flight hours instead of your cherry picked and statistically insignificant airframes lost to total airframes manufactured (which leaves out so many things of statistical significance), what kind accident rate does that yield? You're comparing technically advanced aircraft with the technology that aircraft were equipped with in 1964? Really? Cirrus aircraft were born with glass cockpits, sophisticated autopilots and in general are designed to make flying as easy as possible. You're comparing them to aircraft made and outfitted with 60 year old tech? You're not much of a statistician... You're not even very good at creating conflict, given your pisspoor analysis. I am one person and I do not seek out Cirrus pilots to make fun of. However, I have witnessed the aftermath of one pilot who pulled a chute in IMC after a door pop on climb out. He had a full autopilot as well as a "level" button, yet he went for the chute and ended up coming down on a moving truck in a neighborhood where several of my colleagues lived. He had no business taking off in what he took off in, but hey, he had a chute. Then there's pilot I mentioned earlier who landed with no oil pressure and put 4qts in his plane and departed with his wife on 100NM trip over forested and mountainous terrain. This experience is anecdotal I know. However, I think insurance companies must have data you don't. Go get a quote on a new SR22T and an M20TN insure them for the same hull value and tell me what the rates are. Last I was told, Cirrus is significantly more to insure? Why do you think that is? I think Cirrus makes a wonderful AC. I think they've done a lot for GA. I also think it has come at a cost. Luring folks in that would have set on the side lines has a cost. One of the costs is reading the incoherent rants of fanboys like you...

It is possible this is just an intermittent short. While an 18 yr old Skytec might not owe you anything, that does not mean it has necessarily failed. Clean and seat all of the connections. Heat causes metal to expand which may be solving your intermittent short. Heat also causes the resistance of a conductor to increase. So in theory, your starter should be getting more current when it is cold. Verify continuity on all connectors and clean the grounds before you let a mechanic just throw a new starter in it. Be thankful you're in Long Beach. It's 18º here and my hangar is uninsulated. Looks like it might hit 33º tomorrow which will be nice right before the big blizzard on Fri and Sat...

You clearly have an ax to grind. No one "hates chutes" or is "anti-chute". Most people just hate stupid and careless behavior in an airplane. I think that Cirrus pilots especially are lulled into a sense of security because they have a unique out. It is reflected in their behavior, especially the early accident stats. A guy in my state pulled a chute during a door pop in IMC, is that a F'n save? How about the couple I met last summer at CBE that inspired this thread: Your examples are pisspoor. Any aircraft can can crash on approach in IMC. Fly into an imbedded T-storm the way Crossfield did and you'd better be wearing the chute. A chute can save a pilot from himself as Cirrus pilots have proved time and time again. You act as if we should all be celebrating the aeronautical douche baggery displayed in pulling a chute after running out of fuel. What if he'd landed on someone? It's going to happen before too long. I can see it now; a flying member of the bourgeoisie pulls chute to save himself from his own stupidity and lands on a ground bound members of the proletariat, killing innocents. That's an issue we'll all have to deal with. The insurance costs of repeatedly replacing totaled airplanes that didn't need to be totaled is a good busines plan for Cirrus, but at some point totaling airplanes that's might have just been dead sticked is going to get expensive. Again, no one hates chutes; I just think people dislike it when they're used as a replacement for sound judgement. A save is indeed not a F'n save.

Agreed! Wow! I could not have said it better!

Can you post a pic?

Check the leads to the starter, make sure all ground straps are secure. If you've got full voltage to the starter, then it's time to call Skytec. That starter doesn't owe you much after 18years.

East Coast Propellor in Lititz PA did my last OH 9 years ago. They told me then that there was plenty of meat left for another OH. http://www.localaviation.net/Pennsylvania/Eastcoast-Propeller-Service-Incorporated-7331.html Thst being said, that looks like a from the crank seal or perhaps the crank flange. If there was that much oil coming out at the shanks, the face of the prop would be completely covered.

60s is actually high for an F under gross

I've never heard it called a pressure cowl. I just happened to see these the other day when doing a parts search.

Do all of the carbureted birds have a Plenum (doghouse)? I thought it was a mid 60's thing. My 67 Exec does not have one. Is this the suff you're looking for Dev? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lycoming-0-360-Mooney-Pressure-Cowl-Baffling-/151934974431?hash=item236007b9df:g:r9UAAOSwv0tVLw4a&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lycoming-0-360-Mooney-Pressure-Cowl-Baffling-Right-Rear-/161934457777?hash=item25b40bbbb1:g:hq4AAOSwv0tVaaTh&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lycoming-0-360-O-360-Mooney-Pressure-Cowl-Baffling-Left-Rear-Baffle-/161934458275?hash=item25b40bbda3:g:0I4AAOSwl8NVaaJH&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lycoming-0-360-O-360-Mooney-Pressure-Cowl-Baffling-Right-Rear-Baffle-/161934457594?hash=item25b40bbafa:g:e3cAAOSwstxVaaLf&vxp=mtr