Greg Ellis

Mike Busch says that every owner should have a borescope. Well, not sure about that but I have one. Talked to my A&P about what to look for. More importantly just know what is normal and then if something looks strange you can talk to a mechanic about it. I don't do any work on my airplane other that what is allowed. I just like to know what is going on inside my cylinders.

About 5 years ago, I got tired of patches failing over an over again. Decided to take my plane to Paul Beck at Weep No More. 5 years now, leak free. These photos show the before and after. The before photos look like people were trying to work on the tank blind!!! But you can see how Paul gets every last little bit of old sealant off and then does a superb job with the new seals. I recommend him highly. There is not a finer person on the mechanical side of our airplanes than Paul Beck.

I think Don Maxwell has worked on this airplane. I bought my C model 11 years ago and I was out at Don's back then and I think I remember seeing this very airplane there (the color seems familiar). At the time I was curious, being a new Mooney owner and having no knowledge at all about the many different models, as to what the big ports were for exiting the empennage and I remember asking Don about them.

I read the AD. I don't think this is really a big deal to the actual owner and operators of the ELT's in the airplanes because it states that inspections must be accomplished within 12 months of the AD. Well, normally it is tested and inspected during an annual so that is no biggie. If something is found to be wrong then you take corrective action which you would do anyways if the ELT failed. Now, the cost may come in if it does fail. You have to replace it with an FAA approved unit which these no longer are. The AD stated that there have been 75 failures of these particular ELT's. Ameri-King stated that they have approximately 14,500 of these in airplanes. So this represents less than a percentage of 1 percent failure.

1963 C model Useful Load: 1008 lbs. Fuel: Stock tanks with 48 gals Payload after full tanks: 720 lbs or so.

I am a little late to this topic but I would add that I own a 1963 C model. It is IFR capable including an enroute and approach certified GPS. Not WAAS mind you but it has been sufficient for my needs. No autopilot, single pilot IFR hand flying all the time. Approaches to minimums. I will add that I train with an instructor far more than is required by the FAA but I feel I have to because I do not have all the latest bells and whistles to make the flying easier. But, yes there are a lot of IFR equipped C models out there. I have a friend who even has an IFR equipped A model!!!! (Oh....what insanity!!!!)

This just came through my e-mail this morning and I thought I would pass it along. https://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/101/3738-full.html?ET=avweb:e3738:238379a:&st=email#229298 SB632_Connecting_Rod_Identification_and_Removal_0.pdf

This may be unrelated to the actual starting issue but the need to aggressively pump the throttle may be a problem with the carburetor, in particular, the carb on these engines had no other prime other than pumping the throttle a couple of times to fill the carburetor bowl. This is an accelerator pump I believe, anyone please correct me if I am wrong. There is a diaphragm that if it is old and or cracked, you have to do as you said and aggressively pump the throttle. This happened to me soon after I bought my airplane about 11 years ago. They overhauled the carb and replaced this diaphragm. After they did that, all it takes to start is 2-3 pumps and did not matter what the temps outside were. Now your other issues could be the starter, shower of sparks, like folks have said but I just wanted to put this out there to you since this symptom you describe that I have quoted is exactly what happened to me.

Are those speed brakes I see...On a C model?

I did check way back when this first started and I do have the lean carb. I will check the mixture cables when I go to the airport this weekend. Fuel pressure is fine when this occurs. Fine meaning well in the green. With my limited engine monitoring gauges, when running in the mid 10's GPH on fuel flow down low, the CHT gauge reads below 400. It is an old analog gauge so I assume it is around 360-380.

No engine monitor as such. I do have the old CHT single probe and a 4 lead EGT but they are analog, not digital and difficult to use other than a glance to see if you are close. I do have a JPI Fuel scan and that is what I am getting my readings from on the fuel flow. I have checked the RPM using an RPM tester that you point at the prop and it checks out very close to the gauge. I will check the MP when not running. I appreciate each and every response on this post and all the help and time you guys are willing to give me.

I was told by a long time Mooney owner and mechanic that 15-16 gph on take off is what to be expected in a carbureted O-360.

I do understand this and thanks for the response. This is exactly what is happening. However, at 2500 feet and 25 squared I should see 12 gph fuel flow or there abouts and I get 10 and the engine runs rough. I have a good friend who has an A model with the same engine. When he levels off at 2500 feet and pulls back to 25 squared he sees around 12 gph and no roughness.

Sorry, no. I am climbing at WOT. Level off at 2500 feet msl, pull the power back to 25 squared and the fuel flow drops into the low 10's. Book value says it should be in the 12's. The engine runs rough like it is too lean. If I increase the MP and RPM I will get back up above 12 and the engine smoothes out. My concern is the book value should be at 12 but at 10 it runs rough.

I have a 1963 C model with a Lycoming 0-360 A1D engine with about 900 hours SMOH. I have struggled with an issue ever since the overhaul and would like some guidance since no one can seem to figure out what the problem is. On takeoff I get 15-16 gph fuel flow which is perfect from what I have been told for a carbureted engine. The issue is when I level off at a low altitude, at or below 2500 feet MSL. The fuel flow drops down to less than 11 and usually in the lower 10's. This is with the mixture control at full rich and the RPM/MP at 25/25. This is very lean for this altitude which the book value says should be running in the mid 12's GPH. So while down low the engine will occasionally run rough due to the low fuel flow. If I climb above 3000 feet MSL the fuel flow increases up into the 12-13 range and the engine runs fine. Above 5000 I lean the engine so of course the fuel flow drops off but the engine does very well above 5000 feet at 10 gph. The carburetor has been checked and everything seems fine. So I am baffled as to what is causing a low fuel flow at a low altitude when it should be running above 12 gph and then an increase in fuel flow when climbing above 3000 feet. Thanks for any help.

On the Chief Aircraft Website, it states that it does not fit Mooney aircraft. It is at the very bottom of the description. Taken directly from the description... it will not fit on the Beech Sundowner, Traveler or Musketeer with Lycoming engines; the Piper Cherokee Series; ALL Mooney Aircraft.

Just going on what was listed in the G-model on the ad, I did a Vref on it and it was valued at $48,000. Not precise because I don't know what all is on it but I think it would be close since they do not list a GPS etc.... I know some don't beleive in Vref but it would be a place to start.

I should be able to make it Don. Thanks for setting this up.

Dave Morris' Mooney is N1960. No alpha in the tail number. He has a nice M20A but I don't think he lurks here. www.n1960.com He did quite a history on his airplane including meeting the original owner. Bill Wheat was the first to sign the airplane's logbook on its maiden flight and Dave also had Bill sign the inside of the oil filler access door a few years ago. Some interesting things about an old Mooney.

The South Central Vintage Mooney Group is having a fly-in on April 25th. The festivities begin around 10:00 am For those unfamiliar with the group, it was started a few years ago as a way for Mooney pilots in the South Central US (Mainly Texas) to get together for small, informal fly-ins. Basically an excuse to fly somewhere. Look for us on www.vintagemooneygroup.com Our fly-in on April 25th will be at 66TE (Landings). This is one of 2 airports in Pecan Plantation in Granbury, Texas. We will serve burgers and other side dishes. Quite informal. So, please join us if you can. Sign up should eb available on our website shortly so please check back there and sign up if you are able to come.

I like the PVC pipe trick. Well done. I have heard some folks using one of these http://tinyurl.com/lox3jtm I do it old school. I watched my first A&P IA do it (very well known and well respected A&P in Texas). His method was to just let it spill then clean it up with mineral spirits sprayed from a gun hooked to an air compressor. I have since been stuffing paper towels under the oil filter and I get minimal spillage and just wash it down with the mineral spirits. But I may give the PVC pipe a try. I tried the bendable drain like I mention at the beginning of my message however I could not get it to wind through the hoses and wires to get to the oil filter (1963 C model).

Is this why we have missed you at the last couple of fly-ins? Sorry to hear about your foot and hope you get well very soon.

One of the mottos of the VMG is "It is not the planes that are vintage....It's the pilots!!!" So no airplane is too new.

1) Engine failure (loss of oil pressure and increase in CHT's; engine quit on short final to an emergency landing) 2) Generator failure X 2

I am 50 hours into an overhauled engine from Western Skyways. The overhaul after all was said and done was closer to $30,000 for me due to circumstances of where the overhaul was done. I had to land in Clovis, NM after a loss of oil pressure and high CHT's. Clovis is not where you want to be if you need an engine overhaul. Western Skyways did a great job of the engine though and after my regular A&P fixed the issues from the shop that did the engine swap, the plane is doing great. So budget wisely for any overruns because there definitely will be. Western Skyways charges an initial $5000.00 deposit to start the engine building. You get that back if you return them a usuable core. The final rate for the engine (O-360-A1D) was $20,000. The rest was in labor. This was back in June. It took roughly 7 weeks to get the engine because of a back order for the pistons they were using. Fuel system and Mags and wiring harnesses were all new.